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My complete protocol - recovering well from bad 7 years+ CFS

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Carter Burke, Dec 16, 2009.

  1. xlynx

    xlynx Senior Member

    London, UK
    Hi Carter,

    Just wandering if you had any strategies for sticking to pacing. When you say you started with 700 steps and up it by 1.3 a day how strictly did you follow this?

    Once you were feeling good at rest you must have been resting a lot whilst feeling pretty good, thats where I have the biggest problem. I find it so hard to resist. I admire your ability to make such changes.

    I would be interested to know how you occupied your minds and thoughts because thats my main issue. I lie on the bed for 30 mins doing meditation then I read for 20 then I meditate for 20 and then my CNS shouts at me throws some anxiety in and then I cant resist being idle anymore lol. I found that using Clonazepam on occasion gives some relief when my nervous system is screaming at me but would be up for any methods you may have found to handle this.

  2. Carter Burke

    Carter Burke Guest

    Hey Susan :)

    Yeah I noticed the early stages of my CFS definitely involved a high stress response and general overstimulation of the CNS. (it manifested in chronic overbreathing - which can be hard to spot. My main symptoms were frequent yawning/sighing and a need to take regular, lung-expanding inhales. Starting Buteyko technique - which I learned from Patrick McKeown's book, Asthma Free Naturally - was maybe the first step towards getting better. At least it stopped me getting worse and stopped my body chemistry being TOO out of whack.)

    Supplements certainly didn't do much for me until I was on a pretty exhaustive and tried and tested program. (Dr Myhill's protocol for mitochondrial support and general health really.)

    I wouldn't have got far trying things one by one.

    Have you considered your magnesium might be chronically low? That can be both cause and effect of having a hyperreactive CNS. Oral supplements didn't seem to do a great deal for me. My doctor recommends injections, but I think I managed to get my levels up with very small applications of magnesium chloride solution applied to ankles/wrists.

    I'd been taking Magnesium supplements for a few years, but the first time I tried it transdermally, I got a VERY noticeable reaction, in moments. My lungs felt free and relaxed, I felt quite energised. But had to go slowly. I think I can tell when my levels are good because I don't get that reaction to it. (Magnesium Chloride mixed with water is probably best; you can buy magnesium oil; or you can use epsom salts either as a concentrated solution or in bath water or foot spas. And then vitamin D can be important for uptake, I think. Magnesium's also vital in the Krebs cycle btw. Magnesium and Malic Acid have helped a lot of FM patients. You probably already know all of this!)

    I've got a lot of benefit from taking amino acid sports supplements actually - something I explored for myself. I think L-Glutamine at 10-15g/day might be one of the more useful things I take. (I've read of people recovering from CFS with Glutamine. There's a good study which showed marked improvement at 10g/day - another which showed no improvement at 2g/day. 2g isn't very much though, you'd probably get more in a piece of chicken. Good for gut and immune problems.)

    Might be worth trying the active forms of Folic Acid too? Like Folapro. Some people have genetic problems converting Folic Acid to its active/usable form (afaik).

    My specialist also recommends fixing gut problems first. I'm not so clued up on that tbh. I've had phases of using Olive Leaf extract, Oregano Oil, VSL3, Betaine HCL, etc.

    @ xlynx:

    I actually never *consciously* increased my daily steps.

    I'd plot what I was doing quite organically each day - so one day it might have been 570 steps, another it might have been 1400. And I used the trend function in Excel to see what my average was and whether it was gradually going up or down over time.

    I learned a lot from this. If I went over a certain number of steps - in the early days it was maybe 1800 - I'd inevitably have a run of days where I was generally below my average. It's quite subtle, because 1800 steps over the course of a day is still quite a sedentary day. It wouldn't exhaust me, assuming this was just pottering around the house, but I'd see on my charts it must have taken something out of me.

    So I learned my "window". My upper limit would've been around 1700-1800 steps, and my lower would've been around 600 steps. So I'd vaguely consciously stick within that. And then the increases came naturally and gradually. (And interestingly, while my average steps/day has continued to improve very consistently, my upper limit seems to have increased more. So I *can* push myself more - it's maybe increased at closer to 2.5 steps/day. If that makes sense!?)

    As for getting bored. I'm a total Type A personality. I like to be very active. Personally, when I'm resting, I've got a load of pillows on the floor, my feet up, TV, laptop. I think you have to get in a comfortable/"lazy" routine. When I'm restless, I'll go for a drive or cook something, maybe go for a short walk.

    I find I have to keep myself mentally stimulated. If I start to feel physically restless, I take that as a good sign - that I've got excess energy - so then a walk or drive is a good thing. (In my opinion.)

    You might have the overreactive nervous system thing which I had for a long time, which makes it difficult to relax. Again I'd look at magnesium deficiency (I think almost everyone with CFS has low magnesium - but won't show up on serum blood tests. I think you need tissue or at least red cell magnesium tested - I just supplemented anyway).

    Phosphatidyl serine seemed to help a lot there too. And possibly good, high strength Omega 3. I seem to find that settles my nervous system and helps me sleep.
  3. xlynx

    xlynx Senior Member

    London, UK
    Hi Carter,

    I think I definitely got the overactive CNS. If I close my eyes to go to sleep my body reacts by giving me all the adrenaline left in my adrenals, fast breathing, palpitations and extra sensory skin sensations. I feel like a glowing beacon.

    Interesting your point on magnesium for CNS as I am very low on magnesium the problem is my doc refuses to give me injections he just anti injections, I am taking loads orally buy just don't believe its doing much. So I think I am definitely going to try using the cream you suggested. When you say high dose omega 3 to calm you down what sort of dose and the make you used if possible. I am on 1000mg split in 3.

    Also can I ask you what you used for sleep?

    I am taking benzos (although not happy about it) as I cannot get a wink in otherwise.

    Really appreciate you passing on all this info :) Many thanks
  4. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

    East Coast

    YAY - another magnesium person!!! I also got a very noticeable reaction to magnesium oil. However, I also got a good reaction to just the capsules once I got my dose up to about 300 mg at night - the better sleep and pain reduction in my legs was amazing.

    One thing to consider is that magnesium and calcium frequently come together in a supplement because you need magnesium to absorb calcium. However, lots of calcium can actually block the absorption of magnesium - one of those supplement conundrums.

    From "The Magnesium Miracle":

    "Magnesium regulates more than 325 enzymes in the body, the most important of which produce, transport, store, and utilize energy. Many aspects of cell metabolism are regulated by magnesium, such as DNA and RNA synthesis, cell growth, and cell reproduction. Magnesium also orchestrates the electric current that sparks throught the miles of nerves in our body...."

    Take care,

  5. susan

    susan Senior Member

    Gold Coast Australia
    Hi maxine,
    the Doc turned naturopath has made sthis formula resultign form they amino test that has 200mg of magnesium. I have been taking cal/mag an dnow he has added more magnesium.

    I did Buteyko too for many months. Since the doc said my brains are practically fried from high levels of neurotransmitters, my adrenalin runs so fast and I have high BP as a result. So I have changed my breathing for much longer slower kind and it is making a difference. I wake at 3am every day so I lay there and just breathe low and slow for hours...it has become a habit now I enjoy.

    This demo model http://www.control-your-blood-pressure.com/index2.html of how to lower BP is very good as it comes with nice music and I have just play it continually. I play it while I work at the computer or in the kitchen until the subsconsious has caught onto it. It has the breath sounds, like whooshing for in and out. ...it used up lot of download space.

    None of us CFS people breathe properly.

  6. Carter Burke

    Carter Burke Guest


    That's really interesting. I was much the same during my 'active' stage, I suppose. I think it'd be very interesting for you to try a magnesium solution on the skin. (I really recommend a small dose first - I reacted to little more than a drop of magnesium oil on my fingertip at first!)

    For me, the sensation felt mildly euphoric, uplifting, but just a little overwhelming too. It tends to last about an hour, tops. But if you start with small applications and work up, I think you get your levels up and you can tolerate more. The thing with magnesium deficiency, as far as I know, is the body gets bad at absorbing it when it's low. So I think *now* taking it orally keeps me topped up - back then I don't think it was doing much.

    (Magnesium oil or if you can find a supplier of magnesium chloride powder, and mix it about 50:50 with water until it dissolves. Epsom salts are a very affordable alternative, although I've heard some say Chloride, which is what you get in magnesium oil too, is slightly safer.)

    I'd also consider Vitamin B3 (Niacin). That can have a calming effect similar to valium, and in my CFS bloodtest, B3 was found to be low. It's also involved in energy production. (I take 500mg Niacinamide daily - it's one of these supplements I suspect helped a LOT with calming my nervous system down. I also take fairly high doses of the rest of the B vitamins in my Biocare Multivitamin. Probably everyone with CFS should be.)

    Omega 3, I take 4x VegEPA capsules at the moment. Sometimes I take 2x Omax3. I think I get around 2g Omega-3/day. And it's quite important it's from a good quality source, as I hear some Omega 3 capsules can be quite high in mercury.

    Have you tried the Buteyko technique too?

    - A good quick test is to pause your breathing, naturally, on an out-breath; pinch your nose; and count the seconds on a clock until you feel the need to breathe in again. (It's called a Control Pause.)

    - This gives you a rough idea of your CO2 tolerance - which gives you a rough idea of whether you're habitually over-breathing... Buteyko guys say the ideal is 60 seconds - most healthy people I know seem to score around 35 seconds... Most bad over-breathers seem (like me, back then) tend to score around 10-18 seconds.

    Over-breathing can lead to that CNS effect you're describing, and it tend to make the body offload magnesium and make it very hard to get levels back up.

    Might also be worth trying L-Glutamine, 10-15g/day. (Sound like I'm a supplement salesman! But a lot of CFS people are low in it; it's cheap and safe; and the body uses it to make GABA - which is a relaxant/anti-anxiety neurochemical... It's also used to make Glutathionine and Glutamate.)

    *Something* I take has definitely helped there. PS - check Zinc too if you score poorly on the overbreathing thing. (Or white spots on fingernails probably indicate Zinc deficiency - not 100% sure whether that's reliable.)

    For sleep I don't actually take anything now - I remember back in my worse days I once went 5 days without a wink. Some might find the amino acid L-Tryptophan helps. Or Melatonin.


    Hey! Great to meet another magnesium evangelist! My specialist's a very big fan, obviously. She sees a lot of people get better on magnesium and B12 injections alone.

    Apparently when our cell walls are damaged, it's harder to hold on to magnesium - (someone will know the exact details there!). So being able to hold on to magnesium's one of these things that seems to have got better very gradually, possibly as I've been taking things like Omega-3 which improve cellular integrity (?).

    One of the best supplements I take (which might only be obtainable by Myhill's patients in the UK) is Myhill's Magic Minerals, which has magnesium and calcium in about equal balance. Also has about 11 other minerals in just the right balance for CFS. I think boron (?) helps keep magnesium levels balanced to. It's also got things like Iodine which help detox heavy metals, and a decent amount of Zinc.

    Getting magnesium levels up is probably the keystone to recovery for a lot of us. Such an important mineral, as you say, and quite difficult to get levels up - even more difficult to test for (I don't know why doctors bother with serum level blood tests!?! Just so they can say "Well, there's nothing wrong with these tests..." perhaps??). I think a combination of a good oral supplement with occasional use of a solution on the skin should do the trick though - I never liked the idea of injections!


    Of course, I remember you telling me now!

    I think getting your amino acid levels rebalanced and supplementing magnesium is the way to go. Are you taking a good multivitamin and good high doses of B vitamins too?

    I can't be 100% sure what it was out of my supplement protocol which made all the difference there, but I went from years of feeling incredibly wired/stressed/anxious when the doorbell rang, or there was a storm outside, or even talking on the phone, to being completely at ease and calm again within quite a short time of starting my program really. I'd tried therapy and things there, but I didn't need any of it once whatever brain chemical imbalance or nutritional deficiency I had was corrected. (As I was saying above, I think L-Glutamine, magnesium and B3 (Niacinamide at 500mg/day) may have been key to resolving that. But I could be totally off there of course. But low Glutamine is common in CFS, and low Glutamine should also mean low GABA - which is an anti-anxiety medication I think.)

    Yeah, I think the breathing problems in CFS are possibly caused by the cells in the body going slow (the mitochondria going slow) and producing less 'exhaust gas' basically - CO2.

    Whether it's cause or effect is a chicken and egg question maybe, but I think while most people can get away with breathing maybe 3 times too much, I think us CFS lot have to actually aim for breathing closer to the ideal, of not over-breathing at all. (As overbreathing's more about low CO2 than it is high Oxygen. The balance is what's important in respiration.)

    And I also think as my body's started producing more energy again, I can breathe more, and overbreathe more, without symptoms or problems as I've got more CO2 being pumped into the system anyway.

    I've not heard anyone mention this theory apart from Rich Van K (who I notice posts here!), but I think it makes a lot of sense of my blood test and symptoms.

    Getting enough Zinc by the way? I never realised, but apparently it's almost as important as magnesium in keeping the breathing rate healthy. Myhill's website mentions exactly why, somewhere!
  7. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

    Thanks Carter...

    ...that's all very interesting! Much appreciate your taking the time to write everything so clearly. You're a Star!

    My husband has been a Buteyko convert (it got him off asthma meds) for 12 years and he's often suggested it might do me good. I'm extra inspired to actually give it a go now. I just checked and my control pause is 10 seconds.....long way to go there then!
    The magnesium offloading effect sounds interesting and relevant too.

    I'm keen to start Rich Van K's protocol not too far into the New Year.
    Working on diet and gut right now though... I have been for years actually, but, in my case, really seem to have made some progress avoiding all grains.

    Good to see Lectins mentioned too. I know lots of Autistic Spectrum Disorder children do well avoiding those, and in general I think ME/CFS people do well following similar dietary advice.

    Many thanks again for sharing so much!
  8. Carter Burke

    Carter Burke Guest

    Hey, thanks so much! :)

    Wow, 10 seconds is a pretty low Control Pause. Very promising, I think. That was mine at my worst, when I was going up and down, day to day, like crazy, and having all sorts of weird symptoms. (In Buteyko terms, a 10 second CP means you're breathing 6x more than you need to. Might be a slightly different case for us CFS people.)

    Excellent that you've got a partner who can show you how it's done properly then! I just find practicing for a few minutes when I wake up and a few minutes before bed keeps me well - and whenever I need to relax in the day. (I normally do a Control Pause then a few minutes of reduced breathing with a slight air-hunger. Can help to put a finger along/under your nose and aim to breathe lightly and softly enough for you to hardly feel any warm air on it... Also quite important to check that the pulse doesn't rise while you're doing this - it's a way to make sure you're not pushing too much. Can take a while to retrain the body to tolerate higher CO2 and breathe easier.)

    Takes a HUGE strain off the body, physically, to get in the habit of breathing more efficiently. (Considering it's a muscular action you're performing 10s of thousands of times a day.)

    And then the body chemistry problems are to do with respiratory alkalosis - and cellular acidosis - which slows down energy production in the cells (can cause CFS on its own) and is countered by the body getting rid of bicarbonate, which grabs magnesium and takes it with it (as best as I can remember). Also common to find chronic over-breathers wind up with adrenal fatigue - which is probably why a large part of my pacing and recovery has been spending my rest time with my feet up, expending as little energy as possible. (Adrenals tend to be SLOW to recover.)

    Getting my magnesium and zinc levels up made progress with Buteyko MUCH easier btw. I think the whole syndrome - from CFS to over-breathing to low zinc and low magnesium - can be very interlinked; all compounding each other.

    Thanks again!
  9. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

    East Coast
    The Dance of Calcium and Magnesium

    Hi Guys,

    For those interested in magnesium - especially those trying to hold on to whatever magnesium they have - you might want to read the information at the following link:


    Pages 20-22 are very informative and are entitled "The Dance of Calcium and Magnesium" and the "Calcium Distraction".

    Take care,

  10. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

    East Coast
    Thanks Carter

    Thanks so much Carter for responding to each of us. I am very much drawn to the logical way you have approached your treatment, and dissemination of information regarding what has helped you. You commented that you sometimes feel like a salesperson for some of this stuff, and I feel that way about how I talk about magnesium. I feel like a salesperson, but I promise, I don't sell this stuff!! For me personally, I believe I had a major magnesium deficiency for years and years (since around 1980) before ever getting CFS (1991). Was that a contributing factor? Who in the world knows?

    I also don't know why docs use serum level blood tests. Since only 1% of our magnesium resides in the blood, how can you test for that in the blood? You could then only test for a percentage within that 1%?? From what I read, the only test that is close to accurate is one that is used for research purposes and is not available for the general public. I can't understand why this has not become available? Labs feel it is too complicated a test to offer to the public? Would be too expensive? They don't see the value in it? I feel like a victim of yet another medical establishment.

    I also liked you comment about feeling almost "euphoric" when using just a drop of magnesium oil on your skin. That is way I describe my feeling the first time I took a warm bath with magnesium oil. It was a little creepy actually. :) I have not had that dramatic of response to it since then, but a definite lessening of pain in muscle and joints. I did not ever get that feeling from using epsom salts, but then I might not have been using enough.

    There is another book I read regarding magnesium that focuses on "Transdermal Magnesium". It is worth reading too, and written by a Dr. Sircus (I think that is the right spelling). In there he argues for magnesium chloride oil over some other forms of magnesium (I believe you mentioned this). Of the 3 books I read on magnesium, however, this was probably the least scholarly. He comes across as somewhat angry at main stream docs for not recognizing the power of something so simple as a mineral.

    OK, I am crawling down from the pulpit now.

    I look forward to reading more on this thread.

    Take care,

  11. abstractblue

    abstractblue Guest

    Are you sure that you didn't just have a mitochondrial disorder and not CFS?
  12. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member

    What if CFS is just a symptom of a mitochondrial disorder?
  13. Carter Burke

    Carter Burke Guest

    Yeah, that's the current thinking.

    Here's the original paper "Chronic fatigue syndrome and mitochondrial dysfunction"

    They found that the health of the mitochondria could accurately indicate whether someone had CFS or not, and what level of disability they were at. (So by FAR the best blood test there is for CFS.)

    The term 'CFS' really describes a symptom, but impaired mitochondrial function explains the causes, nature of, symptoms and implications for treatment of chronic fatigue. So it could be that one day we relabel CFS 'mitochondrial dysfunction'.

    It especially helps explain why pacing's so important, and why so many of us hit a wall and go backwards with exercise and graded activity.

    Other ways of looking at CFS - like testing for XMRV, EBV, mycoplasma infections, etc. - often show a correlation, but never demonstrate cause and effect: why so many healthy people have these subclinical infections too; whether a run down body simply accumulates more chronic infections.

    In looking at CFS from the perspective of mitochondrial function, things like XMRV become contributing factors, rather than implications for 'magic bullet' treatments (which the drugs industry obviously prefers).

    My own feeling is that no matter how disabled you are by the condition, unless you're actually on a downward spiral, and getting worse day by day, your body's found some kind of equilibrium... The immune system, repair and detox systems, and energy production are all just about in balance with toxins/infections/deficiencies/etc. you're struggling with. So rather than looking or hoping for magic bullet treatments, I look for little things which will slowly help swing the balance more in my favour. (Whilst pacing very carefully, and not just using up any extra energy I find myself with -> keeping myself in a state of mitochondrial failure/energy debt.)

    So for example, if B vitamins help 1%; L-Carninite helps maybe 2%; CoQ10 helps 1%; D-Ribose 2%; L-Glutamine 2%; etc. it all adds up over time. Takes a little strain off the system; means I can do a little more; means I'm not constantly pushing myself into the red; means my body can rest properly and start repairing long-term damage, rather than just trying to keep up with the demands of the day.

    (Although in some cases, 'magic bullet' treatments probably will work - if you've got a major drain on your resources, fixing something individually may well swing things in your favour enough. There was a study in Japan where some people got better just on daily FIR sauna detoxing - but generally, even with things like Rich Van K's protocol, which can be very effective, treatment does require a whole lifestyle approach.)
  14. xlynx

    xlynx Senior Member

    London, UK


    Where about can you learn this Buteyko breathing technique, I dont mind paying if I have to but would prefer online downloadable format.

    Scanned google but cant find anyone actually offering the technique online.

  15. ramakentesh

    ramakentesh Senior Member

    In some ways its surprising many of us are so similar considering that CFS is probably a basket diagnosis for a number of ailments that ultimately cause fatigue.
  16. Carter Burke

    Carter Burke Guest

    I wouldn't recommend paying for a course tbh. They're aimed at asthmatics usually and they charge a LOT of money considering all they're really doing is showing you how to breathe less.

    I personally rate Patrick McKeowns books the best. The one I learned from was Asthma Free Naturally, and he's got another, shorter book, aimed at over-breathers in general, called Close Your Mouth.

    The technique's very simple, but I think buying a book and reading about it from an authoritative source means you're much more likely to follow the advice and stick with it.

    My routine is basically:

    - I grab my alarm clock (so I can measure time with the seconds hand)
    - sit up and relax
    - pause my breathing and pinch my nose on a natural out-breath
    - time how long it takes until I feel the need to breathe in again (this is your Control Pause, and tells you roughly how well you're doing)
    - then I breathe back in slowly and shallowly, resisting the urge to take a deep breath
    - then I continue to breathe softly/slowly/shallowly, with a slight 'air hunger' for another few minutes
    - (it's often recommended you check your pulse before and after to make sure you're not pushing. If it goes up, you're pushing too hard; it should remain steady or go down as you relax more.)

    (The feeling of a slight air hunger is important - what you're actually feeling is the presence of CO2, and the whole point of the technique is to gradually habituate yourself to higher levels. Just like training breath holding for diving.)

    (Don't worry about not getting enough oxygen - unless perhaps you have other medical conditions. The body will force you to breathe as soon as oxygen levels go down, which is why if someone told you to hold your breath for 3 minutes to win 5million, you wouldn't be able to do it. So don't worry about not breathing enough.)

    A control pause over 35 seconds is ok for me. 40-45 is what I score on a good day... Early on it was around 10-15 seconds, and my symptoms were much more erratic back then. I also used to have to fight the urge to yawn or take deep breaths during the reduced breathing exercise. That gets much easier. In proper Buteyko for asthmatics, they do it numerous times a day and often for 10 minutes or more a time; alternating between Control Pauses and reduced breathing. I haven't found I need to do it that much, but doing it before bed is very helpful for getting to sleep and probably ensuring good sleep breathing habits.

    (Still recommend buying a book though, as you're more likely to stick with it once you've made an investment and read a bit more about it.)


    Absolutely. That's why I like the mitochondrial aspect though.

    All sort of different things can cause set these vicious circles which impair mitochondrial function in place - any form of stress really, from PTSD to viruses/toxins, etc.

    Thus the syndrome's set up and our bodies are fighting similar battles and accumulating similar problems.
  17. xlynx

    xlynx Senior Member

    London, UK
    Hey Carter,

    Thank you for the explanation, My CP is 15 seconds which is not going to win me any medals!

    I think I am going to try this, I don't have asthma but I have read from Cheney that increased co2 is important so I think I am going to give this a go. Ill grab the book thanks for recommendation.

    Just out of interest how long did it take you to increase your CP to 45

    Thanks again!
  18. Carter Burke

    Carter Burke Guest

    No problem! :)

    I think Buteyko will probably help most CFS sufferers to a degree - even if they're not showing symptoms of hyperventilation, I think relaxing the breathing and getting closer to the ideal of breathing just the right amount for your body would conserve a lot of energy, if nothing else.

    Good you asked actually because I had two stages.

    Over a few months I got my CP up to about 25 seconds, then it stayed around there for maybe a year or more.

    That was a big improvement in itself - I'd probably halved my over-breathing or better, so a lot of my weirder (certainly a lot of my more cardiac) CFS symptoms had reduced quite a bit by then, and I wasn't getting knocked out by fatigue like I used to be.

    I couldn't seem to get it above 25 seconds until I started on my supplement program.

    I *think* the two which have helped the most are magnesium and zinc.

    Magnesium relaxes the lungs and relaxes the nervous system, etc. and over-breathing usually makes you magnesium deficient. Zinc's involved in controlling breathing rate somehow as well.

    I had to supplement with quite decent levels of Zinc for a while, and had to use magnesium transdermally to get levels up in the first place.

    Good Myhill article on hyperventilation http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/article.cfm?id=193
  19. xlynx

    xlynx Senior Member

    London, UK
    Great news it improved your cardiac symptoms cause that is what is driving me nuts! :)

    Cant wait for my Magnesium Chloride cream to arrive. Got my 5kg epsom bath salts on order, my CNS needs so much calming down I think I am going to have to sleep in a bath with epsom salts and soak my clothes in it :D.

    Love to add something new to my protocol in the hope it will give me the edge (my cfs is scared im getting pro active)

    Carter thanks for sharing and upgrading my protocol! :)
  20. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

    East Coast

    Hi xlynx,

    Congrats on scaring that cfs!!! Very important.

    Please let us know how you do on the magnesium chloride cream and epsoms bath salts.

    In the "Magnesium Miracle", Dr. Dean talks about magnesium chloride being completely ionized. I believe that makes it very bioavailable to us. There is a lengthy discussion in her book about different forms of mg, absorbability and a lot about ionization which I don't understand. I am not sure I could have understood it before I had cfs! :)

    Here is a little of it:

    "The amount of magnesium your tissues can readily use is based on how soluble the magnesium product is and amount of elemental or ionic magnesium that is released. A value, called a stability constant, is placed on all metal-ligand complexes. Magnesium citrate is a metal-ligand complex; the metal is magnesium and the ligand is citric acid. Magnesium taurate is a metal-ligand complex composed of the metal magnesium and ligand taurine. Stability constants range from less than one into the teens. If a metal-ligand has a very low stability constant (less than 1), the metal-ligand is readily soluble in water and also easily dissociates into the metal ionic form shown and the ligand."

    The stability constant for magnesium chloride is 0.

    I don't see a stability constant for magnesium sulfate. There is a table that says there is 50 mg of elemental magnesium for 500 mg salt in magnesium sulfate.

    Good Luck,


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