The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Muscle and immune system dysfunction research in ME/CFS - two new studies (July 2016)

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by charles shepherd, Jul 12, 2016.

  1. charles shepherd

    charles shepherd Senior Member

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  2. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    So this contradicts Julia Newton`s findings? Really important to narrow this down. Great stuff.
     
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  3. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    "This research project did not find any evidence of biochemical or metabolic dysfunction in muscle cell samples obtained from CFS/M.E. patients. This contrasts previous work that has reported muscle dysfunction in CFS/M.E. patients following exercise."

    Well it seems pretty straightforward, the function of our sample muscle cells, does not differ from controls.
    I guess the question still could be asked: How do they work in our bodies?
    Their function might there be altered, as a downstream effect.
     
  4. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    @charles shepherd Is there any further detail available about the muscle study, i.e. what criteria was used to select patients? Am I understanding correctly that 100% of this work was done in vitro?
     
  5. Bob

    Bob

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    Thanks for posting, Charles.

    Prof Stephen Todryk's research seems interesting.

    I'm disappointed that Prof Newton's team were unable to replicate their previous work and have obtained entirely negative results in the latest study. It would be helpful to know why this research had a different outcome to the previous research.
     
  6. Wolfiness

    Wolfiness Activity Level 0

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    Yes, does the new study contradict the old one or is it simply that they didn't find the cause of it where they expected?

    The famous 20x Lactic Acid discovery was also in vitro, wasn't it?
     
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  7. panckage

    panckage Senior Member

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    Not sure about that one but Mark Vink's recent case study wasn't
     
  8. Wolfiness

    Wolfiness Activity Level 0

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    I think you're right, yeah, if it's this one -
    https://www.researchgate.net/public...chronic_fatigue_syndrome_A_case-control_study

    it does seem to be in vivo. Does anyone know what this paragraph means?
    Surely Newton is not saying we'd improve if we chose to exercise?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2016
  9. frog_in_the_fog

    frog_in_the_fog Test Subject

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    My friends often invite me out for some exercise, the old brain thinks this will be great, but the new brain reminds me there will be hell to pay later. I often feel that I don't have free will anymore, my illness is in control most of the time.

    So based on how I feel, I would tend to think that some of these studies wouldn't work out as expected.
     
  10. panckage

    panckage Senior Member

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    Well I think he's saying he's unsure if it will help us because as he believes the problem with CFS patients is they won't do the trial. Too high a percentage of us reject exercise so he can't say whether it will help us or no.

    Well I propose the cure for CFS is to beat us with sticks. Nobody will volunteer for my trial so how can they say it won't help them? :p
     
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  11. frog_in_the_fog

    frog_in_the_fog Test Subject

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    Whack! Thank you may I have another.

    The stick method might be a good motivator for some,but not for all.
     
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  12. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    With all the research into our mitochondria right now we can expect some validation or contradiction from research in the next year or two. However the evidence that energy production is diminished is very strong. That is a general finding, and does not tell us why.

    If we are not making enough energy, but the mitochondria are fine, then we can look for other causes, such as hormonal or vascular. However I would like to see some kind of muscle pH probe etc., or some other way, of testing muscle cells post exercise. Did the current study put the cells under stress? At rest I do not expect to see any lactate or other issues in milder patients, regardless of which prior hypothesis we are talking about.
     
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  13. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    I was wondering that too.
     
  14. Wolfiness

    Wolfiness Activity Level 0

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  15. Wolfiness

    Wolfiness Activity Level 0

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    I imagine so, because Newton knows the score, and I think her previous in vitro studies did stress the muscle cells. She's hoping to find biological causation rather than disprove it.
     
  16. panckage

    panckage Senior Member

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    From reading it sounds like she doesn't know what she is talking about. Any improvement from things like GET have been small and are only indirectly related to CFS.

    Exercise helps as long as it's not too much. This applies to healthy people as much as it does to us.

    OK i give up trying to make that something coherent :rofl:
     
  17. Wolfiness

    Wolfiness Activity Level 0

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    She didn't specify an "ignore your body" GET approach. She might well have been talking about a "listen to your body" paced approach. I know some people do manage to increase their activities through pacing whereas I cannot. Until we find out what the problem is and how to define subtypes we just don't know why these variations exist.
     
  18. panckage

    panckage Senior Member

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    @wolfita I was just responding to what I read in the article which quoted her saying some people with CFS improved with GET. That was the reason attributed to her on why she thought exercise helps some PWME
     
  19. Wolfiness

    Wolfiness Activity Level 0

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    I think she's basically on our side though. :)
     
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  20. wastwater

    wastwater Senior Member

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    It doesn't surprise me at all I don't think it has anything to do with muscles.
    AMPK could still be relevant though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2016

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