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Multiple sclerosis patients have a distinct gut microbiota compared to healthy controls

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Kati, Jun 27, 2016.

  1. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    Multiple sclerosis patients have a distinct gut microbiota compared to healthy controls
    http://www.nature.com/articles/srep28484

    Article | OPEN access


    Abstract

    Multiple sclerosis (MS) is an immune-mediated disease, the etiology of which involves both genetic and environmental factors.

    The exact nature of the environmental factors responsible for predisposition to MS remains elusive; however, it’s hypothesized that gastrointestinal microbiota might play an important role in pathogenesis of MS.

    Therefore, this study was designed to investigate whether gut microbiota are altered in MS by comparing the fecal microbiota in relapsing remitting MS (RRMS) (n = 31) patients to that of age- and gender-matched healthy controls (n = 36).

    Phylotype profiles of the gut microbial populations were generated using hypervariable tag sequencing of the V3–V5 region of the 16S ribosomal RNA gene.

    Detailed fecal microbiome analyses revealed that MS patients had distinct microbial community profile compared to healthy controls.

    We observed an increased abundance of Psuedomonas, Mycoplana, Haemophilus, Blautia, and Dorea genera in MS patients, whereas control group showed increased abundance of Parabacteroides, Adlercreutzia and Prevotella genera.

    Thus our study is consistent with the hypothesis that MS patients have gut microbial dysbiosis and further study is needed to better understand their role in the etiopathogenesis of MS
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016
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  2. ScottTriGuy

    ScottTriGuy Stop the harm. Start the research and treatment.

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    I find MS research especially exciting - I guess coz I have a bias in thinking ME is on the same spectrum as MS so I see hope in their research and treatment to inform our research and treatment.

    But I'm curious - how, if at all, does this MS research fit with this recent ME study...

    https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-016-0171-4

    concluding...

    Conclusions
    Our results indicate dysbiosis of the gut microbiota in this disease and further suggest an increased incidence of microbial translocation, which may play a role in inflammatory symptoms in ME/CFS.


    discussed in this thread...

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-microbiome-in-individuals-with-me-cfs.45333/
     
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  3. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    What i struggle with is... Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

    We hear about gut dysbiosis in HIV, in MS and in ME. Which caused what and why?

    Is 'fixing the gut' going to fix everything? This sure is not the way treatments are focused for HIV or MS.
     
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  4. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

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    We heard in the "virome study in CFS", that viruses in the deep nervs of the gut are able to reactivate, and then to infect the microbiome, and therefore create dysbiosis.

    Maybe CFS means to much viruses, to little bacteria.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016
  5. Groggy Doggy

    Groggy Doggy Building a New Home

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    I doubt it. I do not have any pains or issues disgesting food. Regarding folks with gut issues, guess you would need to take samples when they were healthy and compare them (before and after diagnosis HIV/MS/ME).
     
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  6. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    I think dysbiosis is the result, not the cause.
     
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  7. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    Yes, I believe so too and I do not think that a change of diet/ probiotics will change much in terms of recovery/cure.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
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  8. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Quite. Its also not just is this issue cause or consequence? It might also be co-causal or circular ... cause AND consequence.

    This is very early days in this kind of research. I expect to see some surprises.
     
  9. Mark

    Mark Former CEO

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    Spot on Alex. Jo Cambridge said at IiME that their current working model is a circular one: gut -> immune -> brain -> gut ( very roughly). It's not at all clear at the moment how these findings fit in, and it looks like it may turn out to be very complex, but I did get the sense at IiME of pieces of the puzzle starting to come together.
     
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  10. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    My experience is that the gut is seemingly the starting place for some long lasting relapses involving symptoms in the rest of the body. It's possible that gut issues keep stimulating an immune system that is out of whack already for some reason. And it's quite plausible that immune dysfunction contributes to gut issues.

    Note: I have a diagnosis of CFS.
     
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  11. shannah

    shannah Senior Member

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    This particular article regarding Hanson's study clarifies the important point that's being discussed here. None of the other pieces that I've read so far do - but should as without this caveat, it makes it sound fairly trivial and a 'quick and easy fix'.

    "Bacteria in the blood will trigger an immune response, which could worsen symptoms.

    The researchers have no evidence to distinguish whether the altered gut microbiome is a cause or a whether it is a consequence of disease, Giloteaux added.

    In the future, the research team will look for evidence of viruses and fungi in the gut, to see whether one of these or an association of these along with bacteria may be causing or contributing to the illness."

    http://www.neuroscientistnews.com/research-news/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-your-gut-not-your-head
     
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  12. Groggy Doggy

    Groggy Doggy Building a New Home

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    I think that living sedentary lives can negatively impact the body in many ways.
     
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  13. wastwater

    wastwater Senior Member

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    Maybe cytokines make the gut leaky and alter gut population
     
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  14. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

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    Another study about the relation of MS and the gut:

    http://www.futurity.org/gut-bacterias-role-in-multiple-sclerosis/

    The Candidatus Arthromitus is such a segmented filamentous bacteria, that induces Th17-respondes. Interestingly, it showed up in my Ubiome-Test dated May 2015, where bioenergetic testing viral infection, that were induced by high dosage probiotics, prebiotics and methylation. This time I had high inflammation. Also proteos were high, firmicutes low.

    Then according to testing the viral infection cleared, Ubiome-test didn´t show the Candidatus. Proteobacteria were low, firmicutes high, I only had very minor inflammation and symptoms for 8 months.
    Then bioenergetic testing showed again releasing viruses, Ubiome-test showed again the Candidatus, proteos were high again, and firmicutes low. Inflammation and symptoms increased, but they are tolerable.

     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
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  15. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

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    I don't have any pains or issues digesting food either, however, my CFS/ME started after taking Penicillin 25 years ago. Now, 25 years later, after taking Amoxicillin back in March (which is in the Penicillin family) and going through 10 days of antibiotic associated diarrhea, my CFS/ME has gone from mild to severe. So I'm now convinced that my CFS is definitely related to my antibiotic damaged gut microbiome.
     
  16. Groggy Doggy

    Groggy Doggy Building a New Home

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    I am sorry to hear the antibiotics caused you to go from mild to severe. Thank you for posting. I try to keep myself isolated to avoid getting an illness that would require an antibiotic. There are too many negative things I keep reading about using them. I hope you improve and go back to mild.
     
  17. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

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    Probiotics release strong antibiotic substances. These substances are called bacteriocine. Taking probiotics could help you to avoid strong antibiotics.
    Very much synthetic produces antibiotics are recreated to bacteriocines.

    @TigerLilea I also wish you the best for treating the gut. Suggestions from PR regarding gut treatment helped me and help me yet a lot.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
  18. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

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    I totally agree. While researching the gut microbiome, I was surprised to learn that exercise helps to build up the good bacteria.
     
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  19. Groggy Doggy

    Groggy Doggy Building a New Home

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    Thanks for the info. I drink Kombucha for probiotics and see the benefits. I wonder if we are genetically wired to get some types of illnesses, and show no symptoms, but then encounter a trigger (or multiple triggers) to set off the illness?
     
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  20. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

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    I could imagine that intracellular viruses in the nervs (very often coxsackie) create chronic dysbiosis. As the actinobacteria with the bifidobacteria are strong producers of antiviral substances, and of important vitamins like B12 and B9, maybe insufficient actinos impair our defense against viral infections.
    I´m happy to read, that you benefit from kombucha. The more different bacterial strand you eat or drink, the diverser is your microbiome.
     

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