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MS is still being claimed as partially psychogenic!

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by alex3619, Jun 20, 2014.

  1. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    Yes, and why stop there - why not claim that tumors are caused by people thinking themselves sick, and advise patients to swap chemotherapy for CBT?

    Necrotising fasciitis? Well, we know that normal people can fight bacteria, so it is only those who think themselves week and crave attention who allow bacteria to eat their flesh! Off you go to CBT, you attention seeker. Severed limb? Oh well, if frogs can grow new ones it must be something in human psyche that likes to perpetuate feelings of victimhood and disability and therefore stops the limb from growing back.

    You see, anyone can do that. It gives one enormous sense of cleverness :) Off to reward myself with something now.
     
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  2. SDSue

    SDSue Florida

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    More of the same. How dare patients desire proper diagnoses?

    Neurologists have crowned themselves the end-point of the diagnostic trail, tossing about the term "psychogenic" for anything that doesn't show up on a scan. This paper, and perhaps the majority of the medical system, is based on the assumption that "psychogenic symptomatology is at play". "Is". I find that frightening.

    There will always be ambiguities in diagnostics. Physicians, bound by insurance overseers, have forgotten that they are treating patients, not tests. Because of the ready availability of testing, we have entered a realm where many physicians are technicians, not diagnosticians.
    Worse yet - technicians with rampant egos.
     
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  3. bambi

    bambi

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    LOL , your really made me laugh, especially the part about frogs growing a limp and the human psyche like to perpetuate feelings of victimhood - stops growing them back…….humans growing limps - what an idea :lol::lol::lol::lol::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

    Enormous clever ! You deserve a reward .
     
  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    [Satire] Such brilliance does not need reward. Just think of a reward and it will appear. Want to be taller? No problem. Thin? Just think and it will be so. Win the lottery? The mind is magic. [End satire, kind of]

    We tend to think that we have given up on foolish notions of a magical world making things happen. That is perhaps the most important lesson from science - things happen for a reason, even if we don't know what that is at present, and just imagining a reason does not make it so. Or otherwise we had better watch out, he is making a list, and he knows which psychogenic psychiatrist has been naughty!
     
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  5. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    Reminds me of that old fraud, Freud, who diagnosed a 15-year old girl with hysteria because of her stomach pain and when she died of stomach cancer, claimed the cancer was caused by her hysteria. These quacks have no ethics, along with their refusal to learn to think logically. As someone said, a person won't see what they don't want to see.
     
    NK17, PennyIA, alex3619 and 7 others like this.
  6. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    "Scientists at King’s CollegeLondon and the University of Melbourne have found, using brain scans, that psychological stress may be to blame for unexplained physical symptoms, including paralysis and seizures"

    King's College got millions from UNUM, the disability insurance company that has paid off Weseley and got a contract with Works and Pensions in UK to "limit liability" in disability claims. This money was used to start their College of "Psychosomatic Medicine". Sounds like Simon and King's College have received a new infusion of cash to promote their BS theories and try to make them sound scientific.

    If they only looked for the research on these issues, they would find that real scientists have already found the physical evidence of the physical damage and processes out of balance that cause these "unexplained symptoms." They could look up small fiber neuropathy and large fiber neuropathy for starters. But you can't find something you aren't looking for in the first place, unless you are truly an intellectually curious scientist, which these psychobabblers are not.
     
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  7. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    Of course these guys like Freud. He originally found out that sexual abuse of girls by male family members was causing those girls problems but when he presented that paper to his "peers" they didn't like all those patriarchs being exposed for the sexual predators they were. So he went back and rewrote his paper to say that these girls were only fantasizing having sex with male members of their families.

    He sold out patients to the system so he could be accepted by it.

    What next, Freudians? Will we suddenly be told that rape victims today are fantasizing having sex with their attackers? That their fantasies are causing vaginal tears and sexually transmitted diseases? Yes, psychiatry/psychology is certainly evolving backwards.
     
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  8. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    A few case studies of Freud's known patients:

    1. A morphine addict(Fleischl):

    Freud told him to take cocaine to cure his addictions. He became addicted to cocaine as well and died a few years later. Freud considered him to be one of his success stories.

    2. A patient with epilepsy(Anna O.):

    Freud claimed his friend cured her with his talking cure which led to the discovery of psychoanalysis. In reality she worsened so much from the treatment that she ended up in an insane asylum. Freud considered her to be a succcess story.

    3. A young female(Eckstein):

    Freud recommended removing an inner part of her nose surgically to treat her neurosis. She almost bled to death. To save her a part of her bone had to be removed leaving her permanently disfigured. Freud blamed her psyche for the bleeding claiming it was entirely caused by her mind.

    4. Female

    This was one of the few cases where a combination of hypnosis and psychoanalysis seemed to work and lifted her depression. In reality the improvement was caused by a beginning manic episode. The patient developed full blown mania and had to be transferred to an institution. Freud continued to treat her giving her various drugs and substances to treat her psychosis. Unfortunately he overdosed her with sedatives and she died from organ failure.

    5. Russian aristocrat (Pankejeff)

    In psychoanalytic circles this is considered to be one of Freud's biggest success stories. While undergoing prolongued psychoanalytic treatment the wealthy patient voiced concern about the politic situation in russia and felt he needed to return home to protect his fortune. Freud advised him against doing so telling him he still had many issues that needed to looked at. Pankejeff stayed in Vienna and lost his fortune. Freud claimed to have cured him completely but it turns out that Pankejeff continued with Psychoanalysis for over 70 years without any improvement of his mental state.

    6. Female

    One of Freud's friends wife became seriously depressed. His friend wanted her to get treated by Freud. It is not documented if she was ever treated by him. She committed suicide by jumping out of the window of the house in which Freud had his practice.

    7. Wealthy industrialist (Dr. Frink)

    Dr. Frink found it hard to accept Freud’s diagnosis of latent homosexuality. Freud told him: “Your complaint that you cannot grasp your homosexuality implies that you are not yet aware of your phantasy of making me a rich man,” “If matters turn out all right, let us change this imaginary gift into a real contribution to the Psychoanalytic Funds.”

    This is from a total of maybe 10-15 patient that i could find There is not one single cure among them.

    Freud was aware that he could not cure his patients while he talk about dramatic cures in public.

    In a letter to a friend he wrote:

    Patients are nothing but riff-raff. The only useful purposes they serve are to help us earn a living and to provide learning material. In any case, we cannot help them.

    To sum it up if(assuming 13 patients):

    Killed by Freud: 7.6%
    Almost killed: 7.6%
    Most likely contributed to death: 15%
    Left permanently disfigured: 7.6%
    Lost fortune: 7.6%
    Severely harmed: 38%
    Cure rate 0%


    Keep in mind that Freud would destroy a lot of his manuscripts and many of his letters are locked away and not open to the public so some of the worst stuff might never be known.

    Now this is the kind of "science" the Kings College likes and that somatisation disorders are based on? What a sad joke.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2014
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  9. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Anno O, the case that made Freud famous, was identified by a medical historian. She has extensive medical records. She was never cured. She was a drug addict and had many other problems. The science of the day had not advanced enough to figure out her issues ... and the psychogenic fallacy rests on claiming psychogenic cause if a problem is not understood.

    Sadly, they could just say "we do not know". It would be honest. It would maintain trust with patients. It would not lead to potentially dangerous experimental treatments. It would be both ethical and moral.

    I still have not found a good account of the psychobabble history of MS. Does anyone have a link to one?
     
    PennyIA likes this.
  10. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @alex3619 I've just read your Witch, Python, etc. post. I'm so glad you continue your involvement with this topic. My worst fears during the time my nervous system was so inflamed and over-reactive is that I'd end up in the psychiatric system. And for much of my adult life I classified my own ailments as psychogenic, as they were, indeed, stress-related. The past 2 years of uncovering the biochemical origins of my many problems have been gratifying beyond anything I imagined. I can pop off any day, knowing that I solved the puzzle of my life.:smug:
     
    alex3619 likes this.
  11. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    I've heard of a good one available in Dutch, which I think is also in English. But I can't remember the title. The neighbors mentioned it when we were talking about how ME is treated.
     
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  12. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I just found this and thought it might be interesting to some.

    http://www.cbmh.ca/index.php/cbmh/article/viewFile/548/545

    Malignant Histories: Psychosomatic Medicine and the Female Cancer Patient in the Postwar Era
    PATRICIA JASEN

    Abstract.
    Cancer had often been linked with unhappy emotions in the past, but this association entered a new phase in the middle of the 20th century as a result of research in the field of psychosomatic medicine conducted in the United States during the 1950s. These researchers focused particularly upon cancer in women, and were strongly influenced by the prevailing psychoanalytic orthodoxy surrounding the nature of femininity and normal female sexuality. The results of these studies, which appeared in the journal Psychosomatic Medicine , confirmed the personality-cancer link but were rife with erroneous assumptions and faulty methodologies. They were widely publicized, nonetheless, and were instrumental in promoting the association between repression and cancer, especially in women. Despite criticism, their influence was manifest in psycho oncological research in many countries during the decades which fol- lowed and in popular notions of the “cancer personality.”

    33 pages

    So we can add cancer to the list of diseases claimed as psychosomatic.
     
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  13. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I think this kind of belief is linked to some kind of God complex.. where a psych or dr believes he's all knowing for everything medical. They should give a name to this mental health disorder (as obviously they are out of reality)
     
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  14. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I think medical schools should be giving doctors a "smarts" test to see if they are capable of actually thinking things out.. rather then judging who would make a good doctor on rote learning and just passing medical knowledge exams.
    ............

    There was a case in Australia several weeks ago where a nurse who had been a nurse for a very long time.. 15-30? years, just lost her nursing licence as she was declared not smart enough to be doing nursing and they wondered how she'd got her licence... she had been putting a lot of people at risk. There was a very long history of serious mistakes but medical people werent reporting her.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  15. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    add diabetes

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12762955

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3426974
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0010440X70901598

    I
    I doubt that they will ever study such a disorder even if it existed. i have not found a single study about somatisation disorders among medical doctors. Given the high prevalence in the population and the high stress profession that medicine is somatisation disorders should be epidemic among doctors.

    Doctors don't get them. Only patients do.
     
    NK17 likes this.
  16. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I already have diabetes on my list, and a very long list I have not compiled together includes Lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, tuberculosis, MS and gastric ulcers. It also includes many cases of undiagnosed problems, including genetic disorders. This is compounded by the issue that we probably do not even know what most of the genetic disorders are yet, nor how to diagnose them. We keep discovering new ones.

    I would really like to compile a list of papers that review these issues, disease by disease, especially if full text is available.
     
    merylg likes this.
  17. user9876

    user9876 Senior Member

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    alex3619 likes this.
  18. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    Re: "...psychoanalytic orthodoxy surrounding the nature of femininity and normal female sexuality..."

    According to Freud and most of the psychobabblers just being female is a state of sickness and females having any sexuality is to be treated as sickness, too. In the last century women were being forced to have clitorectomies if they wanted more sex than their husbands.

    I had a great aunt who was forcibly committed to a mental institution for being "promiscuous" because she allowed herself to be seduced by her wealthy, much older employer and got pregnant at 18. She was there for the rest of her life and they experimented on her with drugs that fried her brain. And instead of recognizing the process for what it was, the family felt ashamed of her and behaved accordingly. Her baby was placed with my grandparents and was treated as if she were tainted for all of her life.
     
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  19. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Attitudes toward unwanted pregnancy in young women were very bad half a century ago or more. An aunt of mine was thrown out of my grandparents house (long before I was born, so I am getting this second hand) for being pregnant. This caused massive family strife that I do not want to go into. Psychobabble was able to tap into those attitudes I suspect.
     
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  20. NK17

    NK17 Senior Member

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    Yes @taniaaust1 the God complex has been a fundamental problem for many centuries, basically since some old male geezer decided that God was also a male.
    I wonder how human history would have been have we followed a Goddess, but this is material for philosophical type discussions and here we are facing our serious health problems.
     
    ahmo likes this.

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