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Molybdenum and Transsulfuration Pathway

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by minniemom2011, Mar 24, 2011.

  1. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Rich,

    For years in the early 90s when I was really sick I had a Samadhi floatation tank. I would spend hours each night floating in 93.5 degree 1.25 density epsom salt solution. Have you any speculation about how that might have affected me? It was often the only rest I got as I had terrible trouble sleeping with all the pain and so on.
  2. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Freddd.

    Well, first off, if it helped you and didn't make you feel worse, I would say that you did not have significant populations of sulfate-reducing bacteria in your gut. Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate. For people who don't have these bacteria, I think that Epsom salt baths can be helpful. Both the magnesium, which can soothe muscle pain, and the the sulfate, which can help with joint pain by helping to maintain water in the cartilage of the joints, can be helpful. In ME/CFS, there is depletion of intracellular magnesium which is associated with the glutathione depletion, and there can also be depletion of sulfate because of the disruption of the sulfur metabolism. So maybe that explains why it helped you.

    Best regards,

    Rich
  3. xrayspex

    xrayspex Senior Member

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    u.s.a.
    too funny, I have molybdenum tincture that I take a teeny bit of most days....I thought long ago Rich you posted at pH or experimental that its good for MCS flares? I have mcs....but also dysbiosis per gut test at diagnos-techs....so I think I will stop the molybedenum. this stuff is fascinating and so complex....something we think is helpful one year we find out later isn't.....I think around same time read that selenium good for mcs too? you know how it is, read something is good for you at one point and start it and 6 years later not sure what it was ya read that made you start it.....ai yai, I keep trying to figure out an organizational system to document why I do what I do but its hard!
  4. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    Just a suggestion ... I do not make enough stomach acid so I looked for a product to kill pathogens since HCL is supposed to do that for you and I started taking Olive Leaf Extract 1g/day right away before I got any gut issues. It felt great - I could feel it relaxing all my blood vessels - Life Extension did a cover article on it this month quoting studies it lowers blood pressure 11.5 points (and I have high blood pressure). I understand that if you have low blood ressure you may be leery of this and I have no idea how it affects you if your bp is not elevated. However it does kill gut pathogens of all sorts and works very well in that regard. I recently tried doing w/o it and I could not! W/o it I could not live in my skin. (Especially I had neurological problems in the brain - which is also what happned to me some years ago when I found out WHEAT would do that to me - got tested for celiac and dont have it but do have one of those Ig's for wheat allergy. Anyway, I know gut issues can affect the brain from past experience). I added back the 1g olive leaf extract and immediately felt 30% better, and in 3 days that was 100% better. I highly recommend it but of course cannot say if it is really right for you. (I have 18 genetic defects - who knows if what I experience applies to anyone else)

    Rydra
  5. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    I have been doing tissue mineral hair testing. I recently got my Molybdenum up to normal from undetectable. I am having fewer gut issues. I have slowly added yogurt into my diet without any problem and will be moving on to stronger probiotics.
  6. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    Why are you taking molybenum? I know it is needed in the methyl cycle but if you are not SHORT of it, you do not want more as it WILL impede copper absorption and cause neuropathy! It is very well known among ranchers that cows put to pasture in molybdenum soils get swayback due to copper depletion. Copper is needed for methionine synthase enzyme. My hair analysis showed I am high in molybdenum and I could never tolerate an epsom salt bath for more than 10 minutes. I have a bazillion emails to go through but somewhere in there is the website of a cheap lab $100 to get a Traceelements hair analysis. That is th eway to find out your trace element status including molybdenum.

    fyi, although I cannot tolerate epsom salt baths I am not sulfur intolerant. I think it is mostly people with the SUOX genetic defect who are.
  7. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    That could be it. Interesting. But also. molybdenum is a rare trace mineral and they could be over-supplementing. I eat lots of sulfur foods with no problem but I also cant tolerate epsom salts. To me it just feels irritating like super-prune feeling. It turns my skin wrinkly like I've been in chlorinated water waaaay too long. I am high normal in molybdenum. molybdenum blocks copper absorption and causes neuropathy at too high a dose. I'd want to be real careful with that. I also tested by the same hair analysis to be low normal on copper. I never figured out what I was eating to raise my molybdenum levels.

    The problems that molybdenum causes to the methyl cycle has nothing to do with P5P. I proved for myself with homocysteine tests that tking more P5P does not cause more drainage of homocysteine if you are taking TMG anyway, because the TMG cycling path is faster than the P5P drainage path.
    Rydra
  8. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    And knowing the name is going to help you how-? I take 1g/day Olive Leaf Extract to kill all gut pathogens...it is part of what I took to kill h pylori when I had ulcers. I also took Oil of Oregano at that time. Olive Leaf Extract lowers blood pressure significantly so not sure everyone can take it. But if you can it's a great thing.

    Rydra
  9. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    So molybdenum is causing a detox reaction? It seems like detoxing can be a double-edged sword. I'll try taking less molybdenum and sulfur rich foods. I suppose that also means Taurine and MSM.

    Also, if methylation is causing detox symptoms does that mean I need to back off on methylation. It seems like a lot of my supplements could be potentially making me worse, but I'm kind of scared about stopping my supplements also.
  10. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Senior Member

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    How can anyone figure this out? It's too complicated. It's like trying to put jello back together after its been split up.
    Lotus97 and cph13 like this.
  11. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I'm struggling with the same issue. Trial and error I guess. Even if you can afford all the tests some of the people here are getting (I can't), it still seems like a long road. I had my SNPs tested recently because I thought it would be useful, but then I found out from Rich that SNPs weren't always a good indicator of how a person would respond to methylation. I hope he's at least partially wrong (since I already payed for the test...)

    Getting a lot of sleep and limiting activities and sources of stress has helped me more than all the other treatments I've tried. It's not that the other treatments don't help, it's just that my body needs a chance to heal. And rest seems like the best way I've found.
  12. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Senior Member

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    Lotus97, what are SNP's? See, I feel like this is too complicated. IT's too much work and it makes me anxious. It's just guessing in a sense as to what might be doing what. There is no consistency. I am not saying it doesn't work, but it's a mind bender. Take this and it might do that, do this and this may happen. It's one thing to take a medicine and have it go wrong, but this protocol requires you to be on a lot of stuff. You can't always know what is doing what. I can get sick by doing nothing, or by doing something.

    There is too much variation and especially with people like myself who have MCS and all kinds of allergies. I have a feeling that I will pay all of this money and then just quit because the whole thing is making me anxious. You really need someone to work with you consistently. My friend hired Rich back in 2006. She was so confused and she was on so much, she gave up.

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