Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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MLVs(XMRV) VIRUSES ALL INTEGRATE INTO GENE SWITCHES

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by Gerwyn, May 22, 2010.

  1. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    This is the English version

    ALL MLVs (XMRV is a MLV) integrate into regions of DNA that activate genes.Some genes activate processes in the body,some terminate and a greate many regulate other genes.IF XMRV DOES NOT INSERT INTO START SEQUENCES OF GENES THEN IT WILL BE THE ONLY MLV IN HISTORY NOT TO DO SO!


    Precise Correlation between MLV Integration Sites and
    Transcription Start Sites in the Human Genome


    As previous reports, MLV integration sites were
    preferentially located around TSSs (Figure 1). For each data, P-value by using the χ2 test was less than
    0.0001 compared to the random integration. Notably, integration sites in TSS2kb showed quite higher
    percentage compared with random integration.


    http://www.jsbi.org/journal/GIW06/GIW06P093.pdf
     
  2. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    It is clear to me you are worried about insertion sites.

    I know the consequenses could be huges.

    Do you think this is not getting across?
     
  3. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    hi Lans,

    yes Lans I am and no it is not getting accross.The evidence strongy suggests that retroviruses have wreaked havok with our species in the past.Our gammaretoviral HERVs did not appear in our genome from thin air!They are all gene regulators! It appears that retroviruses were responsible for the very rapid development of our neocortex.The Lord only knows what this one is capable of in the longer term
     
  4. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    I understand evolution is driven bij gag, pol and env.
     
  5. jewel

    jewel Senior Member

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    Can you spell out what you think some of the consequences could be, beyond this disease (and perhaps others)? Not to be alarmist, but what are your worst case scenario fears? If you don't want to post, because it might be too scary to others, pm, ok?

    I am trying to follow this, with many years between me and my basic science education (4 or 5 bio and chem classes at the undergrad level). By the way, I appreciate you and others who translate these scientific findings into lay terms. I have not had the time to study these posts in a way that would perhaps maximize retention of this information, so part of the breakdown in my understanding is that I cannot seem to keep up, yet I feel I should at least try to understand and keep up...

    Is the concern that once the regulatory gene is tinkered with by XMRV, there is no fixing it? We cannot approximate "wellness" even with treatment? Is the concern more with regard to our progeny, and the human genome in general?

    If "inactivated" do the ERVs serve an appropriate, on-off or dimmer function on genes, in a way that has worked for humans, but if "activated" (e.g., by other viruses, what not) they can jump around and insert in places that wreak havoc--- and that xmrv as an exogenous virus would be actively integrating into a variety of regulatory genes...? That this would make it difficult to treat or to predict its consequences, given that it would insert in different places? (But that doesn't totally make sense in that you have specified recepter sites, so there seem to be limits as to where it might insert... or are the receptor sites in a variety of types of regulatory genes...but what do I know, I have a social science background....)

    Is it that we are going to get much, much sicker? Which seems contradictory to those people whose symptoms are at least controlled by Ampligen, antivirals, and the like...

    Is it that, in eons past, if there were a very evil retrovirus, people would die off? Only the benign little bits that integrated into the genome, that which became part of our overall DNA... And, for people with something like HIV, efforts are made to delimit/eliminate the vertical transmission... we can do that now. But, here has been an evil virus that has not killed people off before they (at least some of us) reproduce, so that the larger, societal effects may be downstream from where we are now, with increasing numbers of people with neuroimmune problems or neuroendocrine problems and cancers.... I mean, on the upside, I have wondered, if --when scientists begin to understand how this virus works--, it may open the door to understanding an array of illnesses, not necessarily caused by this virus, but by others, or reactivated ERVs...

    thanks, Gerwyn, for all that you do and for entertaining questions from someone who has a very elementary understanding of your subject matter J.
     
  6. usedtobeperkytina

    usedtobeperkytina Senior Member

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    Gerwyn, could this explain Kerr's evidence of abnormal gene activation or expression, (maybe Light Study also)?

    Tina
     
  7. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    yes Tina it could.Theimportant point is that genes inhibit as well as activate so an activated gene can result in inhibition as well as enhancement
     
  8. Dr. Yes

    Dr. Yes Shame on You

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    I really hope someone looks into some of the start sequences/ promoter sequences of Kerr's 88 genes to check for XMRV (or other retroviral?) sequences. Kerr could do it himself. No question of methodological issues in this case!

    As I said TWO DAYS ago,

    Sincerely,

    Larry Curly and Moe* (who are jealous that Fred** is getting all the women)


    *my three remaining brain cells

    **Gerwyn's one overworked remaining brain cell
     
  9. spindrift

    spindrift Plays With Voodoo Dollies

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    You mean like homo sapiens getting more brain? :innocent1: ;)
     
  10. spindrift

    spindrift Plays With Voodoo Dollies

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    (((((((((((((((Dr. Yes))))))))))))))))))) we all still love you.
     
  11. Dr. Yes

    Dr. Yes Shame on You

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    Are you sure? Before you commit to anything, this is as good as my brain cells can look:

    t3stooges2sexy..jpg



    ..while this is Fred:

    fairbass..jpg

    (sigh) He's just too sexy​
     
  12. bel canto

    bel canto Senior Member

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    Oh, Dr. Yes,..... you underestimate your allure!!!!!!!
     
  13. tolduiwuzsic

    tolduiwuzsic

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    Sexy genes

    Can someone break this down for a social worker? Is this what I'm hearing?????

    #1 Viruses don't want to kill you, they want to keep you alive...even barely so they can use you as a host. :Retro mad:

    #2 This virus seems to do just that until DNA problems eventually cause a random/rare Cancer which kills us off but not before we reproduce :confused:

    #3 Fred is indeed too sexy for his shirt um oh...and his skirt and therefore Dr. Yes finds himself oddly attracted to Fred ;)

    #4 Mankind is doomed because XMRV'ers are the brightest of the bunch even with Brain Fog? :victory:

    #5My child probably has this illness too:worried:
     
  14. Dr. Yes

    Dr. Yes Shame on You

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    High tolduiwuzsic (is that Polish)?

    #1 - Viruses don't always make sense that way, since they are limited by evolutionary constraints like the rest of us (though they can evolve faster). There are two extreme strategies for a potentially pathogenic virus: (a) replicate like crazy but risk killing your host (or being killed), and (b) replicate slowly in concealment so your host can't kill you. These two extremes are usually moderated by other factors, especially the ability to infect other hosts. If a virus is really infectious, it doesn't matter as much if it kills off its host quickly. Viruses like Ebola follow that pattern, and often go through "boom and bust" cycles of epidemics and then relative quiet. Some viruses - especially those that have been evolving along with a particular host for a long time - have arrived at a (for them) happy medium, being highly infectious but rarely killing their hosts, and going through cycles in a single host's body whereby they hide from the immune system, often by going into latency. Many herpesviruses fall into this category.

    #2 - That is quite possibly what is going on with XMRV, though whether that is a result of refined co-evolution with humans or not, no one knows... I suppose it depends on how long ago XMRV made the species jump, if it really evolves as slowly as it appears to, etc.
    Also, it's not easy to tell cause from effect in evolutionary biology; there is a constant interplay between host and viral (or parasite) evolution in particular.

    #3 - Gerwyn only has to worry if Fred decides he's too sexy for his skull.

    #4 - Mankind is doomed anyway. DOOMED, I tell you!!

    #5 - Sorry you have to worry about this. :(

    A child wouldn't necessarily have XMRV even if a parent had it. The virus would have to have infected either parent and integrated into the relevant germ cell lines (i.e. into the lines that gave rise to The sperm or egg), or have been inherited by one of the parents from one of their grandparents.

    Remember, we don't yet know if XMRV is tranmissable via maternal blood or breast milk (even if it actually does cause disease).
     
  15. tolduiwuzsic

    tolduiwuzsic

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    Thanks

    Now I know why all the girls love you! Funny, Patient, Brilliant, Kind and Compassionate....thanks so much:D
     
  16. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

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    gene switches, severity and public policy

    While I have no knowledge of how sexy any forum members may, or may not, be, the business about integrating with switches for important genes has been on my mind.

    The problem with the importance of this fact is not showing that a virus can cause all the many manifestations of illness which show up in CFS/ME, it is explaining how it can cause a disease mild enough to have once been called "benign myalgic encephalomyelitis". My tentative assumption here is that the diagnostic category defined as CFS/ME probably does not include the most severe manifestations of the disease. I don't want to go too far in suggesting possible diseases with unknown causes which might be part of the same spectrum. I just want to say there are many possibilities.

    My hope is that once the connections are made arguments about neglecting a "minor illness" from which "no one ever dies" will no longer be acceptable public health policy.

    The way I feel at the moment prompted my latest signature.
     
  17. tolduiwuzsic

    tolduiwuzsic

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    I am sorry you feel like death, Anciendaze...I hope I don't appear to make light of our health issues. I am fully aware this thing is so much bigger and scarier than we realize. Having generalized anxiety in addition to ME/CFS I tend to speculate and go too far with most issues and I sincerely appreciate the input from you guys who are able to baseline it for me.

    It is my hope as well that these connections are made soon so the medical world will recognize the severity of the illness and the consequences for public health policy. WPI should not have to do this alone. Public Health Schools and other health agencies should be falling all over themselves to assist WPI. Why is it taking so long for other agencies to help out?
     
  18. spindrift

    spindrift Plays With Voodoo Dollies

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    I am overwhelmed by the decision, can I just have a lollypop instead?
     
  19. bluebell

    bluebell Guest

    I am amazed at how similar viruses and children are;-). Also, I want Dr. Yes to wear that outfit at the We Are Finally Well Party; I am relatively certain he could rock a lame skirt.
     
  20. usedtobeperkytina

    usedtobeperkytina Senior Member

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    Hadn't seen it in a while, but all this talk reminds me of this guy:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkLL7JdnIk0

    Also, I have a secret. When I worked in a retail store, I would have to walk down the mall to the food court. As I did, I felt self-conscious. To make myself feel more confident, I would sing "I am too Sexy for my Body" to myself at the beat of my walking.

    Tina
     

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