Severe ME Day of Understanding and Remembrance: Aug. 8, 2017
Determined to paper the Internet with articles about ME, Jody Smith brings some additional focus to Severe Myalgic Encephalomyelitis Day of Understanding and Remembrance on Aug. 8, 2017 ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Mitochondria theoretical home experiment idea

Discussion in 'Diagnostic Guidelines and Laboratory Testing' started by MAOAr297r, Oct 7, 2017.

  1. MAOAr297r

    MAOAr297r

    Messages:
    54
    Likes:
    167
    Seattle
    Hey everyone. This might be really dumb and I may be really far off but I'd like to hear you're thoughts. I really want to perform this in my amateur/student lab soon.

     
    Skycloud and Hutan like this.
  2. PinkPanda

    PinkPanda thebiochemcorner.com

    Messages:
    145
    Likes:
    402
    I must say, I have a bit trouble judging if this is a good idea and could work or not, I don't know much about working with a microscope and the technical stuff sorrounding it.

    Maybe, if you have the energy, you could write a very short text on your experimental setup? I'm not a native speaker and I didn't get all the technical terms.

    Otherwhise, if you manage to try your experiment, please update how it goes. I'm still trying to understand how it works, but I'd be interested in the results! :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
    MAOAr297r, Hutan and pattismith like this.
  3. Hutan

    Hutan Kina solidarity

    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes:
    6,427
    New Zealand
    Same. Is the test a known thing? I imagine it might be done in lots of classrooms. So the only unknown is how fast the change happens in both you and a control?

    But I applaud the effort when it's clearly costing you a lot to think it all through and make the video.

    Good luck and I look forward to hearing how you go.

    My temperature is always a bit low and I've heard others with ME/CFS find the same thing. I'm not sure how universal it is though. I wonder how much that amount of temperature depression affects the respiration processes or if it is the low rate of energy use that affects the temperature (or some circular combination). I suppose there would be some data on the rate of respiration at different temperatures.

    I guess you would have to be aware of the temperature of the two samples when you look at them under the microscope - maybe the light might heat up the slide more in the second sample?

    And I guess, there is the possibility that our cheek cells might be fine while our brain cells or immune system cells are the ones going slow?

    My brain has packed up for the night. Hope there was something coherent there.

    But anyway, the main thing was, well done. You clearly are not taking this illness lying down (except for the literal lying down bit).
     
    Wonko and Mel9 like this.
  4. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,097
    Likes:
    13,877
    That sounds like a very interesting idea and experiment. It would be great if this approach using the janus green B dye allowed one to simply and directly measure the hypo-metabolism in ME/CFS patient's cells.

    I found this video of cheek cells under the microscope being stained with the janus green B dye.

    And this video (at 4:46) shows a microscopic close up of a cell's mitochondria made visible by the janus green B stain. A screenshot of this video is shown below:

    Mitochondria Stained Blue Using Janus Green B Dye
    Mitochondria made visible by staining with janus green B.png

    Janus green B can be bought: here for $47, here for $16, here for $6, and here for $30.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
    Hutan likes this.
  5. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,097
    Likes:
    13,877
    This paper mentions that janus green B is reduced by the lactic dehydrogenase and the glucose dehydrogenase enzyme systems, but does not mention the effect of pyruvate dehydrogenase on this stain.
     
    MAOAr297r likes this.
  6. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

    Messages:
    167
    Likes:
    225
    Hutan is correct about cheek cell mitochondria not necessarily being useful for researching ME/CFS. The brain's mitochondria are genetically different from those in the rest of the body, so we could have problems with one but not the other.

    My 'not feeling worse than usual' oral temperature is 36.65C. Yes, that's probably overly precise, but several mercury thermometers all agreed on it being between 36.6 and 36.7 most of the time. Top 'feeling extremely lousy' temperature was 37.6C. Typical 'feeling lousy' temperature is 36.8-37.0C for a fairly short time.
     
    merylg, Hutan and MAOAr297r like this.
  7. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,097
    Likes:
    13,877
    Fluge and Mella showed that in cultured human myoblast cells not even belonging to the ME/CFS patient, when they exposed those myoblast cells in vitro to the serum of ME/CFS patients, the cells developed energy metabolism abnormalities.

    So that suggests that "there is something in the serum", and that in ME/CFS patients, cells in contact with the serum (which is nearly all cells in the body, including epithelial cells from the cheek) might develop energy hypo-metabolism.

    MBM used a completely different type of cell to demonstrate energy hypo-metabolism in ME/CFS: neutrophils from the blood of ME/CFS patients.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
    merylg, Hutan, MAOAr297r and 3 others like this.
  8. MAOAr297r

    MAOAr297r

    Messages:
    54
    Likes:
    167
    Seattle
    Hey everyone! Thank you for all the encouragement, the help and the kind support. I successfully conducted the beginning of this today. I should have a result by friday or so. I'm going to get some help from a retired clinical microbiologist this week.

    I wish I could get well enough to go back to school so I could get the education I need to really know what I'm doing. I'm double majoring in molecular bio and neuroscience. It's so frustrating sometimes. I crave the proper education that would allow to me actually study this but I'm just too sick to function, it's so frustrating. I want to get educated and join the fight on the biological front so bad :( I'm sooooo curious.
     
    pattismith, merylg, Skycloud and 6 others like this.
  9. MAOAr297r

    MAOAr297r

    Messages:
    54
    Likes:
    167
    Seattle
    Here is an update.
     
  10. MAOAr297r

    MAOAr297r

    Messages:
    54
    Likes:
    167
    Seattle
    I ordered some books on biochem so I can be less dense about this lol. thanks for the support guys :)
     
    ljimbo423, Jesse2233 and Learner1 like this.
  11. PinkPanda

    PinkPanda thebiochemcorner.com

    Messages:
    145
    Likes:
    402
    MAOAr297r likes this.
  12. MAOAr297r

    MAOAr297r

    Messages:
    54
    Likes:
    167
    Seattle
    Thank you!!
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page