Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
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Minor thing. Anthony Cleare testifying on the role stress plays in causing CFS...

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Esther12, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Minor thing. Anthony Cleare testifying on the role stress plays in causing CFS...

    In this context, the patient is trying to gain compensation for the role the say work related stress had upon their condition.

    This was from a court case I stumbled upon, and thought I'd post here, in case anyone else is interested.

    http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2012/346.html

    I pulled out most of the Cleare bits, in case anyone is interested.

    edit:

    I'm not able to find a copy of Clear and Wessely's paper 'Chronic fatigue syndrome: a stress disorder?', but in one of Cleare's later papers, he summarises it thus:

    http://edrv.endojournals.org/content/24/2/236.full

    Here are the bits from the recent court case:

     
  2. Yogi

    Yogi Senior Member

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    Psychological Stress in CFS

    On the one hand Cleare and other psychiatrists claim ME/CFS (Neurological) is psychological in contravention of the WHO ICD. Many patients and honest doctors have always claimed viruses and infections cause the symptoms in ME/CFS. However Cleare and other psychiatrists claim there is no role for viral infections in CFS as shown by NICE Guidelines Judicial Review and the XMRV debate over the past few years amongst other recent battles between both sides. Cleare and others claim CFS and its symptoms are psychological.

    How can Cleare and other psychiatrists therefore claim with any shred of credibility in a Court of Law that psychological stress does not cause CFS?????

    Any comments?
     
  3. Graham

    Graham Senior Moment

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    Sussex, UK
    Simple enough - they have found a way to have their cake and eat it. The question is simply - who is paying?
     
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  4. Vitalic

    Vitalic Senior Member

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    There is a difference between viruses/infections causing CFS and viruses/infections triggering CFS. There is good evidence to show that for a large proportion of patients a viral or infectious episode preceded the onset of their illness, but there is little or no evidence to suggest that the ongoing cause of the illness is due to a virus (except perhaps Dr Chia's enterovirus findings but this link is yet to be firmly established). So in that sense they are accurate, but I'm highly dubious about their other claims, such as that they accept there is no evidence that stress plays a key role. In fact I've been told by a NICE medical practitioner that the stress induced by my physical activities in the time before I got ill was the key factor in the development of my illness.
     
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  5. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Yeah - but I expect that this is a pragmatically developed narrative, rather than something that there's good evidence is actually true.

    Given the difficulty of defining 'stress' and the difficulty of defining 'CFS', it seems like just about any claim made about them and their associations could be made. With the weakness of the evidence in this area, I'd be wary of anyone making any particular truth claim - but it does interest me how and why different narratives are constructed, and who they tend to benefit. I bet that the NHS would not accept that model of CFS if you were making a claim for compensation over the harm caused by doctors misleadingly reassuring you, and encouraging you to push through your fatigue with physical exercise in order to overcome deconditioning and an fear of exercise.
     
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  6. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Uhum - any chance of looking at "internal" stress like simple infections - might help them along (with all their difficulties). I mean do we have to worry about them with all their mind body theorising when science and real medicine is uncovering the pathologies/causes of so many illnesses.

    Best way for psychological stress is from their mumbo jumbo.
     
  7. Yogi

    Yogi Senior Member

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    MEDICOLEGAL PSYCHIATRY LIMITED

    Anthony Cleare seems to be doing a lot of medicolegal work for insurance companies.

    His research at King's College cannot be seen to be free of conflicts of interest given the amount he depends on medicolegal work.

    http://companycheck.co.uk/company/07093700

    Total Current Assets : 137,257 and the company was only set up in 2009.
     
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  8. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Thanks Yogi. I wonder if he's declaring that stuff yet?
     
  9. Yogi

    Yogi Senior Member

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    Thanks Esther. He should be declaring this in his research. If anyone is interested they can investigate this further by looking whether he has disclosed it or not.
     

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