Review: 'Through the Shadowlands’ describes Julie Rehmeyer's ME/CFS Odyssey
I should note at the outset that this review is based on an audio version of the galleys and the epilogue from the finished work. Julie Rehmeyer sent me the final version as a PDF, but for some reason my text to voice software (Kurzweil) had issues with it. I understand that it is...
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Michael Morris, MD in San Bernardino treats Chronic Fatigue and FM with T3

Discussion in 'Thyroid Dysfunction' started by CFS_for_19_years, Sep 20, 2014.

  1. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    I found the website of Dr. Michael Morris and while anyone who has looked into thyroid treatment won't be shocked by the information, this doctor will treat you with T3. That is shocking!

    http://t3doc.com

    Here's an excerpt from this page
    http://t3doc.com/about-the-practice

    Here's the outline of his protocol:
    http://t3doc.com/t3-procedure-protocol-for-patients-mds

    His facebook page shows patients' diaries of BP, pulse and weight.

    If I lived near San Bernardino I'd look him up. He treats patients in person, not by distance.
     
  2. WillowJ

    WillowJ คภภเє ɠรค๓թєl

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    That does seem to be unusual for an MD to treat with T3, and good find for those who need this.
    http://thyroid.about.com/b/2009/01/...endocrinologists-dont-like-armour-thyroid.htm

    It appears that he treats "chronic fatigue", not CFS per se. Some people mean ME by "chronic fatigue" (e.g., Dr. Klimas), but most people mean undiagnosed/idiopathic chronic fatigue. This seems to be what he means: the symptom of fatigue.

    If you fit the hypothyroid, sure, that could help, but not all with ME/CFS have this problem.

    I don't think labs are useless, though. The "normal" ranges seem to need some adjusting, but I have never heard anywhere else that they are unreliable in what value they give, or anything like that.

    There does exist a lab test for T3
    http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/t3/tab/test
     
  3. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    WillowJ, thanks for pointing this out - I've changed the title of this thread. My eyes must have been glazed over in some late-night web surfing and missed that part. I searched his site to see if he made any references to chronic fatigue syndrome and there was only one here:

    http://t3doc.com/the-miracle-of-t3/

    He reminds me of the late Dr. John Lowe who treated FM with thyroid meds. Maybe that's where he got his inspiration. I think it would be a stretch to say that thyroid meds could cure CFS/ME - if so many of us would be cured by now. His friend who was helped with 10mcg of T3 was probably short of T3 to begin with and I doubt if it resolved all of her problems.

    But yeah, I thought he might be a good resource for someone living near him if they had FM - don't know about the CFS/ME part though. It looks like he helped one woman with CFS get rid of some fatigue.

    When I was being treated with T3 and T4 for hypothyroidism, the thyroid meds barely brought me back to my previous level of functioning. Previous to becoming I hypothyroid I was about a 4/10 energy-wise, when hypothyroid I was a 1/10. After taking thyroid meds, I was only a 3/10. (I never got my previous level of energy back.) Thyroid meds did not make my CFS/ME/FM any better or give me an extra boost. I wanted to add that just in case someone might think that thyroid meds will be the miracle drug for them. "Pushing" for ever-higher levels of thyroid meds didn't make one bit of difference in my energy levels once I had leveled out.
     
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  4. WillowJ

    WillowJ คภภเє ɠรค๓թєl

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    I think hypothyroid is hypothyroid (not FM or anything else), but many people with FM or ME/CFS do have hypothyroid additionally (or could be misdiagnosed with FM or CFS). If anyone have hypothyroid, it seems worthwhile to attempt treatment.

    I'm glad thyroid meds helped if even some for you, @CFS_for_19_years
     
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  5. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    I don't know if I stressed this enough, but many doctors will treat with T4 only and think T3 is unsafe. Many thyroid patients can't convert T4 to the active form T3, and get left feeling no better than when they started treatment. I was in that category and had to beg my primary doc for T3 and she really dug her heels in. My endo, on the other hand, does see the value of using T3 when T4 isn't working, so I should be good to go this time if it comes to that.

    It looks like this doctor is very careful in how he prescribes T3. It takes a bit more time on his part and on the part of the patient to make sure they don't overshoot the correct dose.
     
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  6. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    High and Low cortisol will prevent t3 from being accessed by the cells. Very low TBG will cause thyroid hormone resistance. The DIO2 gene will prevent good conversion from t4 to t3. Low leptin will downregulate metabolism and TSH.

    T3 won't be the solution for those for CFS or ME, but it will be the solution for those who can't convert. I'm not sure how well it will do with high cortisol, as that may be the problem I'm facing.
     
  7. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Is there any way to tell if your not converting to T3?

    Has anyone felt better with thyroid meds or supps like kelp (iodine) or anything?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2014
  8. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois Prairie ❀❤✿Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ✿❤❀

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    You can tell if you are converting to T3 by having your Free T4, Free T3, and Reverse T3 tested.

    Sometimes I think it is a case of the body being unwilling rather than unable to convert T4 to T3. Some people think that the body does this to protect itself and that taking (very much) T3 could be bad for you.

    I am currently taking T3, 5 mcg twice/day. I don't feel much better, but I think this may be because there are too many other things still not working correctly. I figure a more normal T3 level probably won't hurt.
     
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  9. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Anyone know a good place to buy T3 without a prescription on the net?
     
  10. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    Yes.
     
  11. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    There are so many things that can cause down regulation, especially via the PVN. There are also a lot of things that can shutdown t3 receptors such as excess cortisol, cytokines, and homocystiene.
     
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  12. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Is there much danger taking small doses of t3, say 10mcg daily, if we don't need it according to tests?

    Anyone else tried it?
     
  13. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    In my personal situation wasn't any "danger" in trying it. It didn't work for my because it overstimulated my adrenals which were already producing high amounts of cortisol. It could certainly be an issue for others though. Some suggest titrating up from 2.5 mcg, however.

    I would be willing to bet that most people with thyroid issues really have adrenal issues.
     
  14. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    I'm taking 6mcg twice a day and getting a mild fluttering/anxiety feeling in the chest is this a startup effect or does it mean I'm taking too much or I don't need it?

    It's been a great energy booster so far but only been one week. Thanks
     
  15. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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  16. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    Usually you would get this feeling as you were "adjusting" to the dose. What you're feeling is the t3 being used up very quickly which is what happens with oral t3. There's no way it can mimic your bodies natural production, so some people pulse it 4-5 times a day.

    Also, you must have adequate cortisol if you're body is able to use it like this, at least adequate when you took it. In my case, it had a cortisol raising effect.
     
  17. xks201

    xks201 Senior Member

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    I've seen high cortisol in almost everyone with hypothyroidism due to thyroid resistance, conversion problems, or just low thyroid levels. Thyroid is needed for cortisol to enter the cells.
     
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  18. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    I've always had a low cortisol, around 7 or so. I can't convert T4 to T3. I learned that the hard way when my primary doc would only prescribe T4. I didn't respond until I was given T3. Prior to being given T3, I was getting up at 3 p.m. My hypothyroidism was lithium-induced and affected me for about 6 months (just a little background info).
     
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  19. xks201

    xks201 Senior Member

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    And you never got your low cortisol treated or got an acth stim test to further verify it as low?
     
  20. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    I did both, thanks. ACTH stim test result was normal. One integrative medical doctor did give me prescriptions for hydrocortisone, pregnenolone and DHEA. As I recall, I couldn't tolerate the hydrocortisone. This was about 8 years ago, so my memories are fuzzy.
     

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