juniemarie
Senior Member
- Messages
- 383
- Location
- Albuquerque
My MCS has been almost eliminated since taking LDN for 3yrs. Also my allergies to animals and pollen. It was an unexpected side perk from LDN
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Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
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I've been doing the low and slow route and I've recently added methylfolate with no problem. Coincidentally, I am also taking GliSODin. GliSODin has gliadin (a gluten protein) so people avoiding gluten might want to avoid it. There are other brands that sell SOD. For some reason, SOD can be destroyed by digestion so it needs to be taken on an empty stomach. There are also brands that sell enteric coated SOD. For some reason, GliSODin can be taken with food unlike the other SOD supplements (don't ask me why).I just learned some new information relevant this discussion. Ben Lynch says that methylfolate (or methylation startup as postulated above) can cause a rise in nitric oxide. If you have the SOD2 mutation, you'll have trouble handling this. So you can either supplement to support SOD2, or use the Start Low and Go Slow method (or a little of both), until glutathione levels rise to compensate. Supplements for SOD2 include certain mushrooms and herbs, and GliSODin.
I bought another SOD product from Biotec since it was $5 cheaper and had the exact same ingredients. I don't know if the tablets are the same their Extra Energy Enzymes, but the ones in mine are hard to swallow. They're somewhat long, but thin. However, they're very rough for some reason. There's some studies saying that amla increases SOD and glutathione. I'm not sure if it needs to be taken on an empty stomach or not. Vitacost is having a buy one get one half off sale on GliSODin:Good to know that GlioSODin can be taken with food. I have trouble swallowing pills and need a mouthful of food to get them down. The tiny amount of gluten in it probably wouldn't bother me.
I saw the Extra Energy Enzymes mentioned on another thread where we were discussing SOD's impact on energy. I have SOD so this is of interest to me.
I was trying to determine if this supp had gluten in it too. It's a proprietary enzyme formula (so you don't know exactly what's in it), but wheatgrass sprouts and other sprouts are the ones with the most enzymes, so I assume that's in it. The gluten may come from the wheatgrass if it isn't prepared the right way.
Is the amount of b12 taken proportional to how much (over)methylation one might experience, or is it different for everyone?
Also, it seems to take longer and longer for my body's methylation levels to come down to normal where I feel normal (no anxiety, happy etc).
Quite a few PWMEs who have tried the methylation protocol have reported that they have experienced an increase in symptoms associated with excitotoxicity when they began (anxiety, insomnia, nervousness).
I believe that the increase in excitotoxicity results from a further drop in the glutathione levels in the astrocytes (helper cells) in the brain, when the protocol is begun. (We know from the recent MRS measurements of Shungu et al. that glutathione is already somewhat depleted in the brain in ME/CFS.) The further drop in glutathione lowers the production of ATP by the mitochondria of these cells, and they then have less energy for pumping glutamate out of the synapses and recycling it. When glutamate builds up, it overexcites the NMDA receptors, and that produces excitotoxicity.
Ultimately the methylation protocol does increase glutathione. We have documented that with lab testing.
However, the very first thing that happens when B12 and folate are applied together, which is the real essence of this protocol, is that the activity of the methionine synthase enzyme is increased. This enzyme converts homocysteine to methionine. When that starts, there is initially less homocysteine available to enter the transsulfuration pathway, and that ends up lowering the production of cysteine and hence, glutathione.
Over time, the methylation cycle is able to fill by recycling homocysteine to methionine, and then there is more homocysteine available to enter the transsulfuration pathway.
In our clinical study, our first test point after starting the protocol was at three months, and at that point the glutathione level had increased significantly. But at early times, it makes sense that glutathione would initially drop, and that does seem to correspond to the increased excitotoxicity that many people report.
Best regards,
Rich