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Methylfolate by itself?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Adlyfrost, Aug 31, 2014.

  1. Adlyfrost

    Adlyfrost Senior Member

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    Was thinking about trying methylfolate by itself. Is there any danger of this? Would it be better to take with b-complex? I want to start @ 200mcg's methylfolate and level off at a lose dose- like 400mcg or 800max. I am only 105 lbs.

    Been reading about other people's experience with methylation therapy- since I am extremely sensitive to just about EVERYTHING, I am TERRIFIED :nervous: to try it. Plus I do not have a doctor at this time.

    I have been doing my own detox with herbs and natural anti-virals and other vitamins and minerals, and having good success. :D Just want to optimize my detox since I am still very tired all the time. I do not know if I need methylfolate or not, and wasn't sure if it was dangerous to take it by itself. Hoping it could help me detox a little more efficiently.
     
  2. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

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    The danger of taking methylfolate by itself is that it can mask a B12 deficiency.

    Blood test results that would indicate a B12 deficiency such as an elevated MCV (mean cell volume = enlarged red blood cells) return to normal when methylfolate is supplemented, but any damage from a B12 deficiency continues. Significant neurological damage can occur without any of the normal blood test warning signs. It is always recommended to take B12 along with folate
     
  3. Adlyfrost

    Adlyfrost Senior Member

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    Would taking a B complex with B12 with the methylfolate (500 mcg methylcobalamin and dibencozide combined) prevent any reaction/ B12 deficiency?

    I also recently found a B complex with 400 mcgs of 5-methylterahydrafolate in it along with methycolbalamin. Is that safe to take? Here is the link:

    http://www.amazon.com/Country-Life-...542972&sr=8-6&keywords=country life b-complex

    I have read so many posts about ineffective supplements and obscure sounding B's needed in order to be absorbed and needed to make another B safe that I am afraid to try anything without checking with experienced people first.
     
  4. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    If you are super sensitive to anything start super low and slow. I had the same problem 3 years ago. I couldn't tolerate anything, including most food and homeopathy (which is already ultra low dose).

    When I started Methyl-B12 I took a 1 mg tablet and cut it in four, then crushed one of the pieces and took half of that :) Eventually I was able to take an entire 1/4th of the tablet and after some months I moved to 1/2 tablet and so on...

    Just be patient and let your body adjust to it. Don't be afraid of cutting down the dose to what is tolerated by your body.

    cheers
     
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  5. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    It would probably be best to include a bit of methylfolate with the B12. Again it could be very low dose, like 50-100mcg, and maybe gradually increase to 200 or more when you raise B12.
     
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  6. Adlyfrost

    Adlyfrost Senior Member

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    Do you think it would be safer to take methylfolate in a B complex instead or just by itself with methylcobalamin?
     
  7. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    I don't think it should make a major difference. The problem with the B complex is that if you get some side effects you won't know what is causing it, as there's so many components.

    Back in the days when I was struggling with small dosages of anything I used to add one thing at a time and see how it worked.
     
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  8. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Personal opinion: The B12 you take should be methylcobalamin and it should be taken sublingual, so you can absorb it. So, if it's in the B-complex with the methylfolate, you might not be getting as much as you think. I do like the idea of taking a B-complex, but since you're so sensitive, just add one thing at a time. The complex could be the third thing.

    I just saw this post by Sushi about starting with a low dose and thought it might help: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-over-methylated-need-help.32240/#post-497756
     
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  9. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Definitely take methyl b12 sublingual with methyl folate, they depend on each other to actually work, other wise you create a deficiency of b12 and the methyl folate doesn't really get to use.
     
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  10. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Could you please explain the mechanism for this to happen? This doesn't sync with my understanding, but I'm always open to figuring out where I'm wrong.
     
  11. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    I suppose it is because without sufficient 5-THF the B12 cycle (actually methionine synthase) can't work properly. B12 can't get re-methylated and the cycle gets stuck.

    Of course a healthy diet (and healthy folate SNPs) might be enough to support the cycle and you may not need extra 5-THF.

    Am I wrong?
     
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  12. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    You need B12 to utilize folate, without sufficient B12 you are creating a methyl trap. Take them both together.
     
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  13. Adlyfrost

    Adlyfrost Senior Member

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    I have taken b complexes before without any reaction but they had folic acid- which reading on some other forums can cause cancer of I can't utilize it? I am afraid to even take my multi vitamin now. But MOST of all I am afraid of hypo and hyperkalemia- hypo if I take too much b12 and hyper if I accidentally OD on K trying to prevent hyper. So I thought taking a complex or skipping on the B12 altogether would be a good way to start but I guess not. What is a safe dose for Sublingual b12 starting with 200 mcg methyl folate?
     
  14. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    I think you're worrying too much :) If you take one step at a time and go slow there are very few risks. Problems can arise from sudden changes such as taking bucketloads of B12 and folate all at once, which is not what you were suggested to do.

    Hypokalemia is not even mandatory :) And in any case you won't experience sudden drops if you start with low doses and don't rush it.

    In my case I've never had problems with potassium. At the moment I take 2mg 5-THF and 8mg B12 (50% methyl, 50% adenosyl) + B complex. So far so good, and it's helping.
     
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  15. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    I'm not sure. B12 doesn't need 5-THF to get remethylated, does it? That's not an equation I'm familiar with. My understanding is that MTRR methylates B12 so it can be used (in active form) by MTR, and you need methylfolate also for MTR to work. (But I think maybe I got corrected once - that MTRR isn't methylating but activating the methyl B12? Or maybe it was that the methyl group doesn't leave the B12 for every homocysteine that gets turned into methionine - only the methyl from the methylfolate gets transferred. )

    I think that if you have MTRR -/- and enough B12 in your diet (including supplements that may not be methylated), the chances of "methyl trap" are pretty low. But I haven't done the poll I was thinking of doing. And we don't know Adlyfrost's SNPs, do we?

    So, because of sensitivity, I would think adding one thing at a time is best, so dose can be controlled. If she wants to take the methylfolate in a complex, OK, but maybe after finding the dose with straight methylfolate. And the methylB12 should be sublingual, so it's not going to be part of the complex. Does this sound good to everyone?
     
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  16. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Good point... B12 does or does not need to get remethylated? I thought I had it backwards so I went back to an 1hr long video about the MTR/MTRR cycle by Dr.Ben Lynch. This is not publicly available because it's part of a long 10hr+ lecture he gave at then end of 2013 and it's sold as a seminar on seekinghealth.org.

    In any case in the video he's talking about Methyl-B12 donating the CH3 group to Homocysteine becoming cobalamin ("naked" as he calls it) and says:

    "Methylfolate comes in and donates the methyl group, so now methylfolate isn't methylfolate anymore it is tetrahydrofolate (THF)"
    ...which is still not clear because he's not saying where the CH3 goes. But a few seconds later he says:

    "Methlyfolate gives the methy group back to the cobalamin and turns into tetrahydrofolate to restart the folate cycle..."

    So it seems to me that the B12 is getting remethylated.
    Of course I suppose this doesn't go on indefinitely otherwise it would be "perpetual motion" and we wouldn't need any more methyl-B12, it just regenerates itself ... :p

    I suppose at one point the cobalamin gets oxidized and won't work any longer.

    Here's an article that goes a bit in detail of this process:

    http://www.californiahyperbarics.com/autism21.html

    cheers
     
  17. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Grabbed a screenshot from the video about the remethylation of B12:

    b12-ss.png
     
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  18. Adlyfrost

    Adlyfrost Senior Member

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  19. Adlyfrost

    Adlyfrost Senior Member

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  20. Adlyfrost

    Adlyfrost Senior Member

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    Update: Still haven't the nerve to try this stuff yet. Just ordered some sublingual methylcobalamin for whenever I get the nerve. I am so sensitive to everything!

    I think my GI can't break down certain things and meds and supplements seem to linger in my system, leaving me hyped up and nervous a lot , with racing heart. Perhaps an enzyme deficiency? YES, I KNOW, I should have my SNP's tested! It is my first week in grad school though and once I get 23andme back I won't have the discipline to go on with school- I will be reading about the SNP's for months!!! So I will start that during my winter break.

    I have decided to start with a baby dose of methylfolate: like 50mcg's or less. Not sure of the B12 ratio. Will reread your posts and links and then decide. @PeterPositive : I like your idea about the 1/8th of a B12 with a tiny bit of methylfolate. Thanks everyone for all your input.
     

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