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Methylfolate and Methyl B12 induce severe depression from 1 dose??

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by cobain_justinsane, Nov 12, 2014.

  1. cobain_justinsane

    cobain_justinsane

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    Hello all

    Back again I tried on Saturday night to once again start methylation supplements. Took 1000 mcg Mb12 and 800mcg Mfolate at around 7:30 Saturday night. Sunday at around 1:00 got hit with pretty bad depression that has continued to get worse so far this week, I have lost my appetite and can barley get out of bed.

    I'm getting pretty frustrated here because every time I try methylation supplements it seems to worsen my mental health symptoms!!

    One thing though, I also suffer from bad seasonal depression and the depression began back in September, before I started methylation support. So I am wondering if the methylation supplements are intensifying my depression or what?

    I also have low B12 and I believe I'm having some symptoms of that. Yet I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place because every time I try Mb12 and MFolate, my depression gets quite unbearable.

    I plan on starting magnesium oil and using a light box tomorrow to see if either of those have a positive effect on the depression.

    I think I'm also just going to try Mb12 on it's own and see if it produces and mood changes by itself (but should I be supplementing even a little bit of Mfolate at the same time just to be safe?)

    Does anyone know what the heck is going on with this?? and what I can do to help???? Please give me any advice that may help!!

    Ps... no COMT mutations MAO+ and CBS 699 +/- (even though I hear that doesn't matter)
     
  2. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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  3. cobain_justinsane

    cobain_justinsane

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    I have tried 500mcg and 400mcg of B12 and folate in the past and had the same reaction. The only time the depression cleared was when I was on 2000mcg b12 and 1600 mcg mfolate. but, anxiety and euphoria happened for a day at that dose so I discontinued it.
     
  4. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

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    Can't get out of bed, for me, means I need more B12. I think your idea of just taking Mb12 is a good one. Try that and then slowly (100mcg) add back some mfolate after a week or so assuming you feel somewhat better. What MB12 and MFolate are you taking and how? If the MB12 is not sublingual then you probably aren't getting squat out of it.
     
  5. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    A couple of questions:

    1. have you tried methylfolate without methylB12? (as well as methylB12 without folate?)
    2. could you be short on tryptophan? the methylfolate could be making you hit a wall if you deplete your tryptophan
    3. what are your SNPs, anyway?

    Sorry I have no suggestions. I did just go look up your earlier post, from when you upped your initial supplements rapidly, then crashed, then felt on overdrive. Unlike the methyltrap (too much methylfolate) that was suggested, I'm guessing that B12 is what you are really sensitive to, and by having more B12 in the ratio, you wipe out your methylfolate reserve (which I expect to be pretty low to begin with). And that maybe keeps you from making enough serotonin, which would cause depression among other things.

    If you try what @sregan says and it works, great. If it doesn't, I would try the same approach only reversing the supplements: good base week of methylfolate, maybe with some tryptophan at the same time, then very slowly add the methylB12. But you really need to decide for yourself...you have to decide what kind of reaction you will risk.

    Are your low B12 symptoms neurological (pins in the feet, peripheral neuropathy)? If you want to PM me to answer, that's fine.

    Wish I could be more help.
    Critterina
     
    sregan likes this.
  6. cobain_justinsane

    cobain_justinsane

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    Hey thanks for the replies...

    @sregan I'm taking Now Foods sublingual Methyl B12 1000mcg, and the Solgar Methylfolate 800 mcg.
    @Critterina I could potentially be short on tryptophan as I haven't been eating too well lately and my digestion hasn't been the best lately.

    I added my SNP's to the signature

    My B12 symptoms are mostly neurological, numbness, tingling, pins needles etc. Last time it was checked it was 275 and that was at the end of March. I want to begin taking the methyl B12 before the folate because I'm quite concerned about doing some neurological damage by worsening my B12 deficiency or by causing a methyltrap situation.

    I'm just wondering why you say the B12 would deplete the methyl folate?? I haven't heard of that before.

    Thanks for any help!!
     
    Critterina likes this.
  7. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Well, that may not be you, but if you had the MTRR A66G and the MTR A2756G, it would be more likely.

    MTR with that mutation is like an open faucet that any time there is both methylfolate and methylB12, in that it is overly efficient in using the methyl from the methylfolate to convert homocysteine to methionine. That's all well and good, that's the methyl cycle working.

    But the MTRR makes it very inefficient to methylate the B12, so if you have that SNP, it would normally be in short supply until you took methylB12, then the cycle would run until you got low on one or the other. The MTRRs you have may have a similar effect, but I think they are less severe than the A66G SNP.

    Since you have both MTHFRs, you may not have a whole lot of methylfolate anyway, until you take some. So starting with not a lot, then turning on methyl cycle by taking methylB12 (which I was assuming was in shorter supply than the methylfolate), you would use up the methylfolate. Clear as mud?
     
  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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  9. cobain_justinsane

    cobain_justinsane

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    @Gondwanaland
    I haven't started any cofactors yet. I'm going to start taking transdermal magnesium and digestive enzymes wih HCL. I'm then going to start taking methyl B12 by itself and work my way up, then start taking methylfolate once the B12 is in place. I hope the magnesium helps with my mood problems. I've heard it can be quite useful.

    @Critterina
    The second time I tried to start up methylation, after a week I bumped my doses up to 1000mcg methylb12 and 1600mcg methylfolate and my depression significantly worsened. From a dosage of 1000 mcg methylb12 and 1200mcg methylfolate,
     
  10. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    It took me a lot of experimentation to find a form of magnesium I could tolerate. But when I found it, it really helped, including with mood :love:

    be sure to take a look at all minerals (zinc, potassium etc)

    EDIT: BTW have you read caledonia's documents about methylation (roadblocks and start low)?
     
  11. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Interesting. I would love to know what your tryptophan levels were when that happened! I can see why you'd be cautious.
     
  12. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Perhaps you are low in B3. This is needed to convert tryptophan into serotonin.
     
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