Methylfolate and mercury detoxing

[Mary]

@Hip - I can't convince you about the efficacy of muscle testing so I won't try. I have tried as many drug and supplement protocols as I can (e.g., Freddd's B12 protocol - very helpful! I had first tried Richvank's protocol and did not do well on it). I get the impression you think I'm relying solely on muscle testing - I'm not. I'm a walking lab experiment actually I have tried so many things and a few have actually helped - e.g., the baking soda suggested by pone for PEM - actually I was skeptical about it, BUT, I was willing to try it and am so glad I did! I do keep my mind wide open with this horrible disease ----

 

[ramkishore]

Hi all,

Whenever I take mb12 and methylfolate of 100ug I get angry from morning to evening. what should I do?

 

[Mary]

Hi all,

Whenever I take mb12 and methylfolate of 100ug I get angry from morning to evening. what should I do?

Maybe you should try niacin, or cutting the dose, or both. From what I understand niacin slows down methylation. It might take the edge off. I know there are several people who know much more about this than I do and hopefully they will weigh in. You might do a search for niacin and methylation on this board for more info -

 

[dannybex]

That is NOT Cutler's protocol. Cutler's protocol includes methylation support prior to amalgam removal, so it is exactly what you describe as your end point. Then Cutler suggests about three months of low dose oral DMSA. ONLY THEN does Cutler recommend ALA.

Cutler specifically recommends that you do NOT start with ALA. ALA crosses the blood brain barrier, and starting with ALA if you are high in mercury in the blood means you will pass even more mercury into the brain, making your symptoms even worse.

Where did you ever get the idea that Cutler recommends start chelation with ALA?

Maybe from his many posts on the subject, quoting:

"A lot of adults succesfully detoxed with ALA alone (mostly because
they couldn't tolerate DMSA for some or other reason). The ALA is
essential to detox, the DMSA is not."

"I also have the experiences of many adult patients recently in the
US who have used LA for mercury detox who have experienced great
improvements in neurological signs and symptoms - myself being one of them."

"Would detox be successful if you used only lipoic acid and not DMPS, DMSA,
etc?

Yes. You can use solely lipoic acid and completely detox yourself or your
child. People have done this who couldn't get the other stuff, couldn't
afford it, or reacted poorly to it.

Andy Cutler"

And many more. A good resource for his statements is this site:

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ANDY_INDEX.html#agents_general

 

[pemone]

Maybe from his many posts on the subject, quoting:

"A lot of adults succesfully detoxed with ALA alone (mostly because
they couldn't tolerate DMSA for some or other reason). The ALA is
essential to detox, the DMSA is not."

"I also have the experiences of many adult patients recently in the
US who have used LA for mercury detox who have experienced great
improvements in neurological signs and symptoms - myself being one of them."

"Would detox be successful if you used only lipoic acid and not DMPS, DMSA,
etc?

Yes. You can use solely lipoic acid and completely detox yourself or your
child. People have done this who couldn't get the other stuff, couldn't
afford it, or reacted poorly to it.

Andy Cutler"

And many more. A good resource for his statements is this site:

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ANDY_INDEX.html#agents_general

I have hired Cutler and spoken to him on the phone many times. You are answering the wrong question.

The question you are answering is "can you use ALA by itself to chelate?" Sure, you can, and the quotes above are evidence that he thinks so.

But the point I objected to was your original statement that Cutler wants you to start with ALA *yesterday*. This speaks to timing, and it very incorrectly infers that Cutler wants you to begin chelating with ALA the moment that you have your amalgams removed.

First, he doesn't believe ALA alone is the fastest path:
http://onibasu.com/archives/am/48302.html
http://onibasu.com/archives/am/39746.html

His preferred protocol is DMSA for three months, followed by DMSA and ALA together, and the reasons for it are in the links above.

Second, Cutler goes out of his way to say you should not take ALA in the first three months after removing amalgams (and NEVER take it before all mercury is out of fillings and crowns in the mouth):
http://onibasu.com/archives/am/74605.html

The reason for this is that ALA does NOT guarantee movement out of the brain!!! ALA is opening a *window* between the blood and the brain, and the flow will move in the direction of the gradient. If you have more mercury in your blood than your brain, ALA will further poison your brain.

Had you read and understood that point, you would never have started taking ALA as soon as your amalgams are out. Prematurely taking ALA, and taking it without DMSA, right after amalgams are out almost guarantee that some of the ALA was moving mercury into the brain and making symptoms worse.

If I take issue with Cutler, it is that he does not enforce that idea strictly enough. For my own chelation, I want to measure my blood mercury and make sure it is heading way down before I start with the ALA. Cutler is okay with just waiting three months and starting up on ALA (preferably with DMSA, but ALA by itself can work). The problem I see with that is that some people actually have blood levels go UP after they take amalgams out. Proof is in the pudding, and I think you should measure measure measure, and use ALA when the blood levels are heading down.

Chelation is just tricky business.

 

[dannybex]

@pone -- you said he said to NEVER take ALA on it's own, and all I was doing was posting quotes of his where he said otherwise.

You said above: "But the point I objected to was your original statement that Cutler wants you to start with ALA *yesterday*."

Please point out where I said that.

 

[pemone]

@pone -- you said he said to NEVER take ALA on it's own, and all I was doing was posting quotes of his where he said otherwise.

You said above: "But the point I objected to was your original statement that Cutler wants you to start with ALA *yesterday*."

Please point out where I said that.

Sorry for introducing confusion. My original reply was to this post:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...and-mercury-detoxing.30967/page-2#post-474755
and he says "Cutler says 'Start ALA chelation yesterday'"

You replied to my reply, and I accidentally took you for the person making the original claim. Mea culpa.

All I am pointing out is that timing is important here. Cutler goes out of his way to recommend you do NOT start ALA "yesterday" or even the day after you have your amalgams removed. His preference is that you start on low dose DMSA for three months, bring the blood levels of mercury down, then add ALA. He allows that you might wait three months, hope for some natural clearance, and then start ALA alone.

 

[sianrecovery]

What an interesting thread - thanks guys. Am in the process of deciding on chelation process. Read Andy's and David Hammond's books. Also, quite by accident, discovered I see a reduction in my symptoms with small intermittent doses of sodium bicarbonate.

 

[pemone]

What an interesting thread - thanks guys. Am in the process of deciding on chelation process. Read Andy's and David Hammond's books. Also, quite by accident, discovered I see a reduction in my symptoms with small intermittent doses of sodium bicarbonate.

I am a big bicarb fan as well, just to treat symptoms of acidosis. I was having tremendous diuretic effects from something that - combined with the acidosis after exercise - left me with classic CFS post-exertional malaise.

You want to know something hysterical? My osteopaths put me on 40 supplements. When an outstanding local allopath figured out that my adrenalin levels (and all pituitary hormones) were through the roof, he had me stop the supplements COLD TURKEY. I hesitated, but my body immediately felt better. About 40% of my symptoms - including drinking and urinating 6 liters of water a day - simply faded away. Whatever I had, I am now faced with the incontrovertible fact that my supplementation program was making me much sicker. I think you might want to test going off supplements for a week and see what your body tells you about that.

I have studied all the mercury chelation protocols, and I think there are two approaches that make tremendous sense:

1) It is a no brainer for most people to do the Quicksilver IMD powder, in order to get the mercury in liver bile to clear the body. This is a MUCH MUCH more effective strategy than eating single-thiol foods like chlorella. The IMD powder is engineered to have LOTS of thiols bound to silica particles that cannot be digested.

2) If you are going to chelate, then the only protocol that makes any sense at all is Cutler's. He is the only person who respects the basic chemistry of half life, in order to develop a sustained level of chelator in your blood supply during the chelation period.

I think most people who claim to treat high mercury honestly have more wrong going on in their thinking that what is going right. It's a very very dangerous area that is filled with people who simply treat people empirically rather than based on good science and understanding of double-blind research.

 

[sianrecovery]

What risks do you think there are in terms of excretion of mercury through the kidneys?

 

[pemone]

What risks do you think there are in terms of excretion of mercury through the kidneys?

At some level of chelation I guess that would be a problem. If you have bad kidneys though, it is already a problem, even with zero chelator!

None of the chelation experts seem to advise doing it, but personally I want to get blood and urine measurements of mercury before chelating and after chelating, maybe once every month during the early stages. That might help me to establish appropriate dosing.

At some point, I hope to see those numbers go very low, and that will tell me that most of the mercury is out of system. I might continue chelating at that point as a prophylactic, but why endure 30 day chelation rounds if your blood and urine measurements are almost zero before and after the round?

 

[MarkO]

@pemone Thanks for all the info, very useful. I've just done a hair test, which indicates mercury poisoning using Cutler's assessment. Also had a urine & porphyrins test to double-check, and they both came back with the mercury fingerprint. So I'm looking into this as a contributing factor in my CFS/ME.

Have you started chelation, and did you get any of the blood/urine tests? I'd be interested to see how this goes...

 

[Johnmac]

Yes, Cutler doesn't accept that methylation protocols assist chelation of HMs. but many of those who use his method - including myself & @stridor - found they do, a lot.

Speaking as a former cult member, forums & groups following a particular method often exhibit the same symptoms as cults IMO.

There seems to be a "Faux-battle" between the Cutler and Yasko groups. Cutler says "Start ALA chelation yesterday", while Yasko says " Start methylation and you will start chelating". Being a life long "Vata", I rejoice in following both. I started with Cutler (because I had never really studied Yasko, Richvank or Freddd then). But after 49 rounds of ALA I was getting too many side effects to continue. By then I discovered Freddd and then discovered Freetheanimal's gut rehab protocol. So after nine months away from Cutler I resumed, but this time with a much heartier methylation ability and a much more robust large intestine. Voila! MUCH EASIER CHELATION. My working hypothesis for what I should have done: Get the gut ready first, "play" with improving methylation, and then dig into the ALA stash in your supplement cabinet. But, but , but,.if Cutler chelation is smooth from the get go, just reverse the order.You will need all three eventually. The Cutler-Yasko bravado is way over the top! "You will take no other God before me" doesn't work in religion, and it does not "play well" here either. At least the " FreetheanimalPharm" +Tater" triumvirate never weighed in on this subject. So they "win" by default.

 

[whodathunkit]

I suspect some "spontaneous" detoxing a lot of stuff (mercury, chemicals, whatever) is what causes a lot of problems when starting methylation. Of course we can't prove that so many scoff at the idea, but often the sides from methylation felt eerily like detox, and sometimes could be relieved by the same minerals and things that help relieve the sides from detoxing.

 

[LozT]

For approximating electrolyte status, buy a $30 conductivity meter and use it to test urine:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0038QTQZ8/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This has been a life saver for me. I detected extreme dehydration as well as get clues about when to take supplemental electrolytes (when urine tests as too dilute).

I typically take sodium bicarb and potassium bicarb as my electrolyte and that has the added bonus of neutralizing acidity.

@pemone

Hi, thanks for the info about the conductivity meter. I bought one on Amazon. It arrived today.

Are there any threads on PR specifically about how to use the meters?

If not, would you be able to give me a set of instructions/protocol on the best way to use the meters to get the most significant results?

Thanks