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methylcobalamin vs hydroxocobalamin

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Plum, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I don't know the answer, but there is a thread someone started about potassium supplements making them ill
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/potassium-supplements-made-me-ill.14832/
     
  2. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Potassium also needs to be balanced with magnesium to be metabolized.

    Sushi
     
  3. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    How do you know whether or not you're "in balance"?
     
  4. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    For me, I have very nasty "events"--had one yesterday, so this is on my mind. I am atypical I'd guess but I can get arrythmias.

    Sushi
     
  5. Plum

    Plum Senior Member

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    Sushi how do you know you need Magnesium for Potassium to work? Sorry if this is an obvious question. I've just gotten my head around Sodium around cells and Potassium inside cells. Now where does Magnesium come in?

    I do function better with magnesium supplementation so will try this in the future.
     
  6. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Plum

    Here is a quick reference--there are more if you do some googling:

     
    Plum likes this.
  7. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Taurine is supposed to be helpful for maintaining magnesium and potassium in the cells. It can also help with excitotoxicity.
     
    Plum likes this.
  8. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Thanks, I am reading about it though what I've found so far is pretty hard to understand if you aren't a scientist.

    Sushi
     
  9. Calathea

    Calathea Darkness therapy

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    To hop in as a newbie to this topic, I've gathered that everyone's fallen out of love with Jarrow since they changed their formula somehow. So what is the current recommended brand for mb12, in particular one that's affordable and obtainable in the UK? What about adb12? The Country Life one has folic acid in it, and the Source Naturals one is a pretty high dose.

    Right now I'm starting with 1/4 of a 1mg mb12 (Jarrow, but it's been sitting in my cupboard for over a year so it should be one of the good batches - what do I use once it's used up?) and 1/4 tablet Solgar Metafolin. Plus I've revised my vitamins to get rid of any folic acid, so there's a new B-complex on the way (Biocare B-Plex) and I'm taking vitamins A, E, D and K separately, with a multimineral and chelated magnesium on top. I'm not currently taking any C, as I get loads in my diet, but I might add it if need be once things have settled down. And I make up a simple electrolyte drink by putting low-sodium salt in water, so I get plenty of potassium from that. I've been on the mb12 a couple of days now, and the main thing I'm noticing is that I'm sleepy, thirsty and hungry.
     
  10. Plum

    Plum Senior Member

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    I take source naturals mb12. I cut tablets up usually in half and put under my top lip - helps them last a long time (thanks Freddd). Solgar's version dissolves super quick.
    Adb12 - I haven't taken it myself but when I did look for it I think there was only 1 brand available in the UK that looked any good. Don't remember what it was.
    iHerb are a great company with lots more selection than what's available in the UK.
    mb12 made me wired during the day but gave me better sleep. It also made me really hungry. I am massively into eating nutrient dense foods so if yr worried about how hungry it makes you I'd focus on nutrient dense foods.
     
  11. Calathea

    Calathea Darkness therapy

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    Well, it does happen to be when I've just decided to go back on the diet for a month or so, as I've put on about 5lb over the last year. If all else fails, I can delay losing weight, it's not urgent. I'm not quite sure what sort of nutrient dense foods you had in mind, but I do eat a nice healthy diet.

    iHerb are cheaper enough on the Source Naturals adb12 that it would be worth shipping it in from abroad, yep. It's ludicrously expensive over here, around £30 per bottle. But the dose is so high! So I'm thinking that perhaps I shouldn't start messing around with adb12 until I can tolerate a decent dosage of mb12, considering that the tablets have ten times the amount of B12 in them?

    The Source Naturals mb12 is easy to get hold of and cheap in the UK, so that's good.

    I am seriously thirsty on this stuff - it's ten p.m. and I've already drunk 4l. Since it's all my homemade electrolyte drink, I won't be short of potassium, that's for certain. It's odd, a week ago I noticed I was much less thirsty than usual and not drinking as much as I'd like.
     
  12. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Calathea
    Enzymatic Therapy is the best brand of methylcobalamin. AOR and Solgar aren't as good, but AOR makes a 15 mg and Solgar makes a 5 mg so if you don't feel like taking sublinguals all day those other options. Also some people find that they need to rotate their brand of methylcobalamin after taking it for awhile so you could try the other brands if Enzymatic loses effectiveness

    Adenosylcobalamin isn't involved in methylation other than what converts to methylcobalamin so your dose won't have anything to do with how much methylation you're able to tolerate. Still, some people have strong reactions to adb12 so it's good to start low. You can cut up the tablets into smaller pieces with an X-acto knife or with Anabol's adb12 you can empty out part of a capsule onto a spoon and then use the spoon to put the powder between your lower lip and gum.
     
  13. Calathea

    Calathea Darkness therapy

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    Enzymatic Therapy got a lot of very bad reviews, as I recall, including a fair number of complaints on this forum.

    I read a very long thread on the Neurotalk forum the other day where they were saying that you're fine to crunch up and swallow your B12, that it's all absorbed orally rather than sublingually anyway. Something about molecule size, I believe? And that the research is generally on oral vs. injectible, and finds that oral works find? Considering that I have just finished reading a thread here about how using sublinguals can damage your teeth, I'm tempted to follow it.

    I have no idea what an X-acto knife is, I'm on a different continent. I have a tablet splitter, but they have their limits. My support workers are already very short of time when it comes to putting my medication in the boxes once a week, and asking them to split tablets repeatedly isn't the best option. As it is, I've realised that we'll have to cut up the Metafolin and the mb12, which will take a while.
     
  14. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Some people here need a very high amount of methylcobalamin and they've found that holding Enzymatic Therapy's methylcobalamin between their upper lip in gum is the best way. They've tried several different types of brands besides Enzymatic and they've also tried under the tongue and so they know what works best. That said, not everyone needs a high amount of methylcobalamin. For some people a high dose of methylcobalamin would make them feel very ill. Especially when combined with a high dose of methylfolate. That's why Rich recommends starting with hydroxocobalamin rather than methylcobalamin and a low dose of methylfolate.
    You can get them on Amazon or eBay. Or maybe a local store that sells art supplies or hobby/crafting supplies. You could do a search for either X-acto, xacto, or exacto.
     
  15. Calathea

    Calathea Darkness therapy

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    Yes, but I really can't ask my support workers to start cutting up my tablets into little pieces with a knife. We probably don't even have the time to use a tablet splitter. Do you need some sort of special knife, or is it just a craft knife? By now I'm just curious!

    What about the teeth issue? My teeth aren't in great shape to begin with.
     
  16. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Some people aren't able to tolerate a high amount which is why they split up the tablets. Also, methyl b12 stays in your system a relatively short time so it might be good to divide up your doses even if you need a higher amount. Methyl B12 is recycled with methylfolate, glutathione, and SAMe, but those are all low when you start methylation. If you don't want to cut up the tablet you could try taking a whole one. If that's too much then just hold under your tongue or between your lip for a minute or two then swallow it. Another option would be to take hydroxocobalamin in which case you're more likely to need a whole tablet.

    I'm not sure if X-acto knives are that special. You can get them for around $5. They have a long, thin handle with part of a razor blade attached to the end. Certain brands of sublinguals you might be able to cut with a pill cutter, but other brands you will need an x acto knife.
    Some brands used on the upper lip and gum have caused tooth sensitivity for a few people, but I don't think anyone has reported a problem with Enzymatic. If you do have a problem with your upper lip and gum you could switch to lower lip and gum or under your tongue which is less likely to cause problems. The absorption rate of B12 in the gut is much lower than taking it sublingually which is why everyone here takes it sublingually. For some reason, methylcobalamin injections aren't always effective. I think it has something to do with light degrading the quality of the methylcobalamin. I guess you could try using the tablet as a suppository or crush it up and snort it if you don't want to take it sublingually, but I think most people would prefer taking it sublingually rather than those other two methods.
     
  17. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    Perhaps you could find methyl B12 strips? A pharmacist rec'd them to me the other day because there is an MD in town who rec's them for all her anemic patients. Jamieson Brand is the one she rec'd and you can cut them easily because they are strips, they dissolve very fast though and have a strong mint flavour that I don't particularily care for. You place them on your tongue but I put them under my tongue and it's fine.
     
  18. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    If they dissolve quickly, I'm not sure how effective they're going to be. If you put B12 between your upper lip and gum it can last for an hour or longer depending on the brand. The longer they stay in contact with the tissue in your mouth the more you'll absorb. That's why people put them between their upper lip and gum rather than under the tongue.
     
  19. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Are you saying that Source Naturals' works better than solgar's? Just because it lasts longer doesn't necessarily mean it's better. And why did you buy Source Naturals' rather than Enzymatic Therapy's?

    For adb12, both Source Naturals' and Anabol's are available at iherb. Some people say Anabol is better, but I've heard that Source Natural's is still pretty good. To avoid any confusion, I'm saying that Source Naturals' adenosylcobalamin is supposed to be good, but their methylcobalamin I'm not so sure of.
     
  20. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    We dont' know that for sure, do we? I'm assuming that the doc who rec's the strips does follow up blood work for her anemic patients and has had success with the strips. I notice when I place the strip under my tongue it stays very red for at least 45 minutes, so although it dissolves quickly on contact the red doesn't completely disappear, so it's possible that it slowly releases as well. They are much easier to cut than lozengers so this is why I suggested them.
     

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