Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Plum, Mar 4, 2013.
Dopamine to norepinephrine is a bad thing, correct? I understand that as negatively affecting mood.
Potassium supplementation was mentioned earlier. Just a heads up to be really careful with it, it can really hurt the gut if taken on an empty stomach or in too high a dose.
Not necessarily. Some antidepressants raise norepinephrine. There are also ADD/ADHD medications that raise norepinephrine. Too much norepinephrine would be a bad thing though. I suspect some of my wiredness/overstimulation is related to too much NE, but it's been 4 years since I've had any tests done so I have no idea what's going on with my health.
In my case too much NE means depressed GABA and thus anxiety/paranoia, but you're right, more wouldn't necessarily be bad for everyone.
Well i wake up with wiredness and cannot go back to sleep, but during the day I have huge energy drops. The Dr has given me ADD meds to help me get through relapses. Also, I saw the potassium issue. Very familiar with those symptoms. I take K-Dur 4 times a day. I will have to watch that. When I start the protocol in April I will remember to start one at a time. I will let you know how it helps me. I bought all the products where Rich recommended. Once I get through those I will chack with updated info to purchase again. Thanks so much for taking the time to answer.
Do you take supplements for mitochondria/ATP/Krebs Cycle? Those would probably be more effective than ADD meds because they help your body produce real energy. Maybe also certain amino acids. There was a study recently that found a connection between ATP and sleep cytokines. I don't completely understand the significance, but it seems to suggest that improving ATP could actually help sleep which seems counterintuitive since you wouldn't think something that gives you energy would also help you sleep. Methylation will also improve mitochondrial function and ATP, but it's good to do both approaches. When you mentioned coinfections was that from Lyme or something else? I have Lyme, but I've yet to be tested for coinfections.
That's good to know and seems to go along with my suspicions about excess NE in myself (though doesn't necessarily confirm anything). Do you of any good norepinephrine blockers? I'm not sure about prescription because I floated the idea by my doctor of me taking clonidine during the day and she didn't seem to want to go along with it so if there's a supplement that works that would be better.
Some quick Google searches revealed some sort of relationship between norepinephrine and certain pro-inflammatory cytokines which reminded me of article I read recently about cytokine depression which mentioned HPA axis which then led me to some information about a connection between HPA axis and chronic fatigue syndrome. My brain is too fried to make sense of any of this, but maybe someone else can tell me what this means. Maybe it's all random and doesn't mean anything, but I'll throw it out there.
Injected, get it from a compounding pharmacy.
It varies from person to person according to what your body needs (is lacking). Norepinephrine is good for me--helps OI.
I agree Ad. I always take it with meals...I think it's the chloride that may be causing the issue.
Does that include neutral/alkaline forms of potassium? I read of one person who had problems with chloride, but not gluconate for example. There's also bicarbonate and citrate.
Not sure...but I'm guessing the chelated forms would be easier on the stomach and the bicarbonate would be even more alkaline.
Hydrochloric acid is also known as hydrogen chloride, so I'm assuming that's why the potassium chloride may need to be taken with meals instead of on an empty stomach. ???
Rich posted about the potassium issue a while back, not sure ill be able to dig it up. I think all types of potassium can be damaging to the gut lining in high enough concentrations, but don't quote me on that.
For anyone wanting to experiment with potassium intake - you can include juices. Ones you make yourself with organic veg. It's what I'm going to do. They also give you a range of extra nutrients and help with detox.
This is what Rich said:
Note that over-the-counter potassium supplements are limited to 99 mg per pill. The reason for this is that if too much potassium is concentrated in one place in the digestive system, it can damage the wall of the digestive system.
It is preferable to take the potassium in the form of high-potassium foods or juices, or solutions of potassium salts, as tolerated.
I've been taking various green and reds drinks recently, most aren't that high in potassium (maybe 100-150 mg). I guess it depends on which fruits and vegetables you're using. Many are quite high in potassium. V8 has 400-500 mg potassium in 8 oz (low sodium V8 has even more because they add potassium chloride to compensate for less salt). V8 isn't organic, but I mix Field of Greens and Nutrex spirulina with it and those are both organic.
This site has nutrient lists of vitamin and mineral for many different foods. You can view the list either alphabetically or in order of highest to lowest.
This site also has lists, but everything in the list is the same weight unlike the first list.
Another feature of this site that I find more useful is that you can search for individual foods and get a complete profile including vitamins, minerals, fat, protein, carbs, sugar, fiber, omega 3, omega 6, and choline. There's a feature where you can adjust the weight such as 1 oz (28 g), 100 g, 1 cup (weight will vary from item to item).
It seems that potassium supplements and vitamin C can block absorption of methylfolate. Thanks to Freddd for pointing this out. So it would be good to take methylfolate at separate times.
I would like to add one more thing to the equation, speed of avaialbility. When a person is having symptoms RIGHT NOW in the middle of the night unable to walk, approximately 400mg of potassium glucinate is what I use, with a 12-16 oz glass of water. Relief can appear in 15-30 minutes. With food based potassium, serum peak occurs with main absorbtion, about 14 hours after consumption.
That was very helpful and not something I'd thought of - thank you Fredd
Coconut water gets into my system pretty darn fast. It's my favorite potassium supplement so far.
You can also try a Google Site Search
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