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Methylation, Vitamin D intolerance-- biochemical interactions?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Jimk, Apr 21, 2012.

  1. Leon

    Leon

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    That's useful; thanks, Crux. Salt does seem to work like a charm for my muscle twitches. With lots of people talking about magnesium highlighting a potassium deficiency - which can also cause cramps - it gets rather confusing. I'm going to try magnesium glycinate, perhaps.

    As for compromised cell membranes, this would make sense. In the Methylation Panel I have high serum folic acid, which he also suggests might be related to compromised membranes.
     
  2. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    You can take something for your liver, just not something that congests the liver. Milk thistle seems to be good for the liver, but it's actually estrogenic. www.sensiblehealth.com has good information about the liver and tonic herbs. Choline and inositol decongest the liver, per Chris Masterjohn's articles @ thedailylipid. High ALT can be from kidney issues, too. Dandelion root is good for liver and kidneys(adrenals), I think.
     
  3. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    It just hit me that it might the adrenal hormones that are actually jamming up your liver, in which case you would want to put a lid on them to stop the vicious cycle. I don't know of anything better than reishi for that, but if you find something else, let me know. That's probably my main issue, and has been since I was about 4 years old.
    Did you or do you have a lot of stress in your life?
     
  4. Leon

    Leon

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    I used to have a great deal of stress in life. I'm awaiting my salivary cortisol test. I'm expecting it to be very low. I'd be surprised if my adrenals are pumping out anything other than fumes! Thanks for your advice.
     
  5. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi @Leon ;

    High serum folic acid is associated with autoimmune disease, cancer, infections, etc. (sorry, bad news)
    High serum folic acid with B12 deficiency is associated with dementia.

    In your Methylation Panel, were there adequate amounts of the other folates? (active folates,reduced, etc.)

    I see you are considering a methylation protocol. It may be a good idea to reduce the elevated folic acid first. This means avoiding enriched, fortified foods and supplements.

    B12 is necessary to metabolize folates, so it may help to reduce elevated folic acid.

    Sorry, I'm wandering away from the vitamin d topic here.
     
  6. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    My D recently tested low. Not much to add to this rich thread except that I finally had the aha moment to try trans-dermal vitamin D lotion as any Vit D in pill form was upsetting my stomach. First week or two into using 10,000 IU a day (one squeeze of the lotion pump) alternating ankles, inner arms, legs, and I seem to be getting some resiliency back. I have ordered some liquid zinc and potassium to try. I also do transdermal magnesium oil on my belly every evening. So far so good.
     
  7. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    I see what you mean. I was thinking about the aldosterone, since you mentioned sodium wasting and frequent urination.
     
  8. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi Sparrowhawk;

    I'd appreciate it if you would tell us about the vitamin D lotion, the brand, and where you find it. Thanks!
     
  9. Leon

    Leon

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    I have low levels of methylfolate, so I clearly am not very good at converting folic acid. Interestingly, I have okay levels of folinic acid, so I imagine my MTHFR gene is mutated.
     
  10. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    Sorry, for some reason I don't seem to be getting all the notifications I should be -- I totally mussed your response on this.

    The lotion is: AnuMed-Intl Vitamin D3 10,000 IU 100ml and I purchased it from Amazon here in the US.

    Hope it's helpful.
     
    Crux likes this.
  11. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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  12. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Sparrowhawk, I finally found out why I was missing so many replies. If you go to the top of a forum page, you'll find a tab to Mark Forums Read. this will keep you up to date and receiving the follow-up posts. Otherwise you must read your alerts and respond individually. Now I've got an inbox full of forum responses, instead of hearing nothing and going back to find a forum many pages on from when I was last there. Hope you get this message. ahmo
     
    Sparrowhawk likes this.
  13. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Crux,

    You are quite right that b12 and folate deficiencies is getting harder and harder to see in a CBC unless one looks at the numbers and compares them to the test results of 50 years ago for range. On old tests, MCV>93 was alerted for suspected low B12. Now having been renormed on a chronically deficient population, MCV>(100-102) is often the level now. However, the problem with testing is multifold. First the whole of the testing was designed to eliminate all but those DYING of deficiency with pernicious anemia. The AMA was cracking down on docs who gave injections because people said it made them feel better and was compared unfavorably to selling narcotics to junkies. The testing was never designed or normed to test for sufficiency, for lack of deficiency symptoms.


    , a B6 deficiency may shrink the size of RBC's.

    When it is the sole cause. However, in combination with b12 and/or folate deficiencies it produces the oversized blood cells of folate/b12 deficiency.

    Many people can have rather horrific symptoms of B12/Folate deficiency, including CFS, and have no abnormalities revealed in a CBC. This is one of the many reasons it's so difficult to diagnose

    My doctor called me the sickest "normal" test results person he had ever seen. Of course a lot of measures were at the edge, i.e. MCV = 99.8, in range some years and not others. If you read the 10 years , cured of fms, cfs and congestive heart failure and lots of more alphabet soup (IBS, MCS etc) designations.

    It is unrecognized because skimming off all the symptoms that respond to HyCbl, CyCbl and folic acid leaves, you guessed it, CFS, FMS, ME, IBS, MCS plus lots more.
     
  14. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi @Freddd ;

    From what I've read about MCV, it seems ludicrous that docs don't know about this. Raising the range is also foolish.
    In 1999, the range at my doc's lab topped at about 97. I showed just above that, but I was having strong symptoms, not knowing what they were.

    Even though I learned that it could be B12 related, I didn't realize that I would need so much B12 then. Sometime in 2004, I became delusional on occasion, but still didn't realize. By that time, the upper range for MCV had gone up to 100.

    In 2006, I saw a naturopath, who was also a nurse, he noticed the elevated MCV, MCH, but he told me I was dehydrated.

    So, I had to figure it out on my own. It still took some more years.

    In 2008,when I stumbled into my internist's office for blood tests, I had been taking 10 mg methylcobalamin subs for a month, along with a b-complex. My MCV then was still 103.6. I was a mess.

    This particular internist now understands the importance of B12 deficiency and elevated MCV, only because she witnessed my recovery.

    My endocrinologist still doesn't think the MCV is indicative of much, even though he also witnessed my recovery. ( daft)
     
  15. howirecovered

    howirecovered Senior Member

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    I'm wondering if anyone here gets headaches from vitamin D as I do? I get them from supplementation or sunshine and they generally last about three full days with pain behind the left eye.

    Have been asking around for a long time and never found any solution...

    Just got my 23andme results and I'm VDR Bsm TT / ++.

    It has been a while since I've had this headache because I quit supplementing for a while - and hoping that maybe with increased methylation support, the problem may go away since I didn't always have this problem.
     
  16. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    Have you tried topical Vit D instead of pill form? I've been doing topical for the past several weeks and it seems to really help. Not sure if that would shift/change the headache reaction you are getting but will help you know if it is other things like fillers, mag stearate, etc. that you're getting along with the Vit D pill. I read on FDC group a few days ago that mag stearate is a problem for folks with mercury.
     
    maryb likes this.
  17. howirecovered

    howirecovered Senior Member

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    I haven't tried that yet and might give it a go one of these days, thanks:)
     
  18. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    If sunshine gives you a headache, and you are thinking it's from the Vitamin D, then wouldn't topical Vit D logically do the same? Does that make sense?
     
  19. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    I don't supplement Vitamun D, but sunshine has in the past caused headaches, and I did come to the same conclusion that it was the vitd. Around the same time I started looking at and taking vitk2, but not consistently. Could it be the extra d causes absoption of extra calcium, which isn't utilized by my body correctly and then causes thick blood that can't carry enough oxygen to the brain? Do your hands get cold when you have the headache?

    There is also the possibility found here:
    http://mpkb.org/home/pathogenesis/vitamind/metabolism
    VDR polymorphism caused by bacteria.

    That makes me wonder if MTHFR and other genetic issues that we're talking about here could also be caused by bacteria. There iswas a whole forum of people with Cpneumonia having secondary porphyria.

    Also, when I get the headache I seem to have hypothyroid symptoms. I don't know what that means, though.
     
  20. WindingDown

    WindingDown

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    I had issues with VIT D before I even knew I was 677 positive..
    I needed D3 but just couldnt use it.. finally with heaps of research I found one nurse who swears we need magnesium to help the D3.. well I do have VDR also, and found taking a pure D3 with no fillers at all NOW thankfully I can tolerate it few times a week its only one drop.. I get in the sun doing pool exercise 3-4 times a week. If I take too much D3 my entire lymph drainage system clogs up.. swollen sore lymnph nodes in my neck can haunt me for weeks.. before I had any idea it was the D harming me I had this swelling for 5 months in 2008 and 8 months in 2010 so happy I realzie what it was I was in so much pain it was horrible.. I too have CFS since 84 and FIBRO since 92 Im sure it was sooner but this was milestones in my past where I can relate the illness with my life.. anyway best of luck.. look up D3 in serum form.. it maybe you answer too best of luck
     

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