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Methylation treatment for cancer?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by greenshots, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

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    hi there,

    My sister has just been diagnosed with early stage endometrial cancer and I wondered if there were any specific kinds of methylation treatments for cancers or if the mini protocol Dr. Vank suggested would be a reasonable option. Anyone know about this area? Any other thoughts? I've read that Indole 3 Carb is an excellent supplement for estrogen sensitive cancers so have already talked with her about that and she's starting today.

    Thank you,
    Angela
     
  2. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, greenshots.

    The methylation treatment might not be a very good treatment for cancer. The reason is that cancer cells demand B12 and folate more than normal cells, because they multiply more rapidly and have to keep making new DNA for the new cells, which requires folate, and B12 is needed to keep folate in the cells.

    If I had cancer again (I had it 13 years ago) the alternative treatments I would consider myself would probably be the antineoplastons at the Burzynski clinic in Houston, or the high-dose intravenous vitamin C treatment of Jeanne Drisko at the U. of Kansas (which can only be done in addition to conventional cancer treatment, unfortunately), or I might get my nagalase level measured by the Health Diagnostics and Research Institute in New Jersey, and if it was elevated, consider treatment with GcMAF or MAF 314. I used to have Rife therapy on my list, but the people I knew of who were doing it were shut down by the FDA, unfortunately. I think I would take coconut oil, too.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  3. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Rich,

    I know somebody still doing Rife therapy coupled with light and sound and claims nothing but a light and sound show relaxation, but does take a thorough history and adjusts the Rife machine "appropriately". I doubt that most folks have any idea of what a Rife Machine is. Back in college with the use of a signal generator, a high power amp and some 15" woofers we were able to find the resonance frequencies of all the various doors and windows in the dorm. Lots of fun to make all the doors in the dorm rattle at the same time. The dorm got a repuation as "haunted". Then there was the night of the "ghost train" that scared the Pinkerton's watchman" off the 4th floor of the dorm.

    The following is several yeas old and there is no doubt that there is more recentg info avaialable. Footnotes and orioginal sources in the paper pointed at.

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/show...h-footnotes-surveys-of-peer-reviewed-research

    It is not surprising that MetCbl, because of its ability to donate a methyl group and because of its role in the regeneration of SAM, the body's universal methyl donor, might be protective against cancer. Cell culture and in vivo experimental results indicate MetCbl can inhibit the proliferation of malignant cells.21 Experimental results also indicate MetCbl can enhance survival time and reduce tumor growth following inoculation of mice with Ehrlich ascites tumor cells.22 Both of the coenzyme forms of vitamin B12 have been shown to increase survival time of leukemic mice. Under the same experimental conditions, CN-Cbl was inactive.23


    Although more research is required to verify findings, MetCbl might also enhance the efficacy of methotrexate. MetCbl appears to stimulate the rate of 3H-methotrexate influx into tumors in experimental animals. Miasishcheva et al have suggested, based on kinetic analysis, a dose of 0.01 mg/kg of MetCbl might be an optimal dose for improving the antitumor drug action of methotrexate.24

     
  4. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Tundras of Europa
    Curcumin is looking very promising for cancer treatment and prevention:

    As it has poor bioavailability, I would take high doses of a liposomal formulation, such as Meriva Curcumin.
     
  5. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Hi Greenshots,

    Rich gave some great ideas. Cost is of course a factor. Burzynski's treatment is usually very effective but is not covered by insurance. If you wanted to consider the nagalase/GcMAF route, you might want to write to Prof. Marco Ruggiero who has worked with GcMAF and cancer. He has published some studies on cancer but probably not endometrial cancer. Still, he may have some anecdotal reports of patients who have tried it for this type of cancer.

    Best wishes,
    Sushi
     
  6. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

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    Is this because of that whole hypomethylation/selective hypermethylation issue with cancer? I see how adding nutrients may simply be feeding cancer cells but it also seems that getting methylation on track would help your immune system to clear things out better and maybe clean up cancer cells?
     
  7. chilove

    chilove Senior Member

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    Look into the Gerson juice fast program. They have healed many people from all kinds of cancers. There is an inpatient program in Mexico just on the other side of San Diego I believe and I think they offer support for the program to be done from home.

    Best to you and your sister!

    Audrey
     
  8. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

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    Thank you so much for your help and the tidbits everyone, I'll look into them!
    Angela
     
  9. Rita

    Rita Senior Member

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    Can I ask you Rich, if you think that coconut oil have anticancer propieties...there are some information about it?

     
  10. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    As Rich said - this is a no-no. It will make the cancer grow. However there is a methylated estrogen being patented as a cancer cure: 2-methoxyestradiol. You can look it up at www.lef.org and elsewhere. Good luck.

    P.S. LEF has a lot of nfo on fighting cancer...browse around while you're there. Just remeber cure is QUITE DIFFERENT from prevention.

    Rydra
     
  11. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    No, no, no. Cancer is fast. Do not make it faster. It is already faster than your body cells can grow. There are many cancer strategies that work by killing everything, but killing cancer faster. The speed of growth/death makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD. Do not aide the cancer.

    Rydra

    I offhand seem to remember that lysine is reputed to slow down cancer. I would take that while exploring my options.
     
  12. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    I agree that curcumin is worth investigating as I also read something about anticancer properties. However be CAREFUL with curcumin...it downregulates CYP3A4, which is the clearance route of 50% of the drugs on the market, which causes them to reach toxic doses. She will be on HIGH DOSE medications and you will NOT be able to use herbs as most of them block P450 drug clearance routes.

    Green tea blocks folate metabolism and thus slows cancer. I think it may also affect P450 enzymes though. I can't find the charts I have quickly - there is so much info out there, even on my own flash drive...

    Rydra

    Taking herbs and sometimes even vitamins is EXTREMELY PROBLEMATIC in oncology because oncology drug doses are usually at the max tolerable range so if you affect their clearance it can be quickly toxic. Go to google /scholar and use search string "oncology P450 herb drug interactions" and you will find papers like this, which list green tea and garlic even as affecting drug dosages:

    http://theoncologist.alphamedpress.org/content/11/7/742.full.pdf html
    http://redalyc.uaemex.mx/redalyc/pdf/856/85670206.pdf
    http://www.who.int/medicines/areas/...acy/trainingcourses/13_bis_skalli_article.pdf

    If you leave off the word oncology you will find more papers. The ones done outside of the country usually contain the most info as inside the country we dont make this info public so much (criminal IMHO). Just remember that in oncology drug interactions are THE WORST and playing around w/o your doctors help can be fatal. Also even with your doctors help because not really that much is known about this - it is a just-now-developing area of study.
     
  13. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, greenshots.

    I'm not yet sure whether an improved methylation status will help, once a cancer has gotten underway. Ahead of time, I suspect so, but once it is there, I don't know.

    What I do know is that cancer cells divide and therefore reproduce rapidly. To do this, they must be able to make new DNA and RNA rapidly. Producing these requires a couple of different forms of folate: 5,10 methylene tetrahydrofolate and 10-formyl tetrahydrofolate. When the folate metabolism is supported, these forms of folate can rise. That's my concern about using the methylation treatment if a person has cancer. I just learned this week that cancer cells are able to downregulate the gene expression of the enzyme 10-formyltetrahydrofolate dehydrogenase. This enzyme normally limits the level of 10-formyl tetrahydrofolate, but when it is downregulated, this form of folate rises, and that helps the cancer cells to make purines, which are needed for new RNA and DNA.

    I should also note that some of the chemotherapy treatments for cancer (such as methotrexate and 5-fluorouracil) work by interfering with the folate metabolism. So helping the folate matabolism after a person already has cancer does not seem like a good idea to me.

    On the methylation pathways panel which I advocate for people considering doing a methylation treatment, 10-formyl tetrahydrofolate is one of the forms of folate that are measured. If it is elevated (which I have seen only one in probably several hundred of the panel results I've seen), it suggests that the person has cancer. In this case, I recommended that the physician examine the patient for cancers. I have not yet heard the result of this. In my opinion, this is another very good reason for running this panel before embarking on methylation treatment. If a person should happen to have cancer, giving them folates is probably not a good idea.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  14. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Rita.

    Yes, I think it does. There has not yet been much study of it published in the formal literature, but there is some. It seems to work with some kinds of cancer, but not all. There is also a book by Dr. Bruce Fife, N.D. that reports that coconut oil is effective in preventing cancer. He also has a YouTube interview about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqNoPvESoc8

    There are a couple of possibilities for how it might work. One is that it can support the immune system by knocking out various pathogens, so that the immune system can focus on the tumor cells. The other is that it may operate against cancer by its ability to produce ketosis. The medium-chain fatty acids in coconut oil are transported directly to the liver, unlike the longer-chain ones in other fat sources, which are transported by the lymph system into the general blood circulation. The liver converts some of the fatty acids into ketones, and they are released to the general bloodstream. Cancer cells produce their ATP by glycolysis (discovered years ago by Otto Warburg), not using the mitochondria for this, as normal cells do. Ketones are burned only by the mitochondria. By shifting the body to ketosis, the normal cells are able to get fuel, while the cancer cells are hindered. In addition, it may be that some types of cancer cells will be forced to use their mitochondria to produce ATP, and this may cause them to lose their immortality. This is suggested by the research on dichloroacetate, which is known to force the cancer cells to use their mitochondria, and which has been shown to be effective in killing cancer cells. This is an active area of research nowadays.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  15. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    Rich, all by itself coconut oil does this? Or doesnt production of ketones also require a low carb diet? I think this is a very uncomfortable (scarey) strategy - when I am short of breath and feel like an elephant is sitting on my chest and have muscle weakness - I test to have ketones. It seems very deletorious to my body. I know a lot of cancer remedies are tough...for dogs they give all protein, no carb dog food. Which of course kills the dog over time but not as fast as cancer does.

    Rydra
     
  16. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    Still, I wouldnt trust the above because I've heard many, many times to the contrary. Above is a mere handful of studies on non-hormonal cancers. I WOULD trust pre-methylated substances that have been shown to kill cancer cells - like 2-methoxyestrone.
     
  17. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    I hate that - I posted a very long post and the site said I was no longer logged in and it threw the note away! I will only summarise...I got all of this from www.lef.org:

    I3C (which I read before is unstable and that DIM is the stable form) can induce apoptesis in endometrial cancer cells. It is what I take to ward off hormonal cancers (via www.lef.org cruciferous vegetable supplement).

    D3 may ward off hormonal cancers and I would test my D3 levels were I her and get them to 70. Not sure it would have any impact now that she has cancer, but I'd want to correct any such problem.

    Tocotrienols can help.

    Fake hormones can cause endo cancer - so if she is on stuff like Premarin, sh should stop.

    obestity and too high insulin can cause endo...studies showed a link. So thinks that increase insulin sensitivity should be considered (may not help this cancer, but seems like youd want to correct the condition that caused it so no relapse).

    unapposed estrogen can cause endo - so bio-identical progesterone should be looked into (ask doc about this?). NO. As of 2000 LEF says this: currently there is little evidence that progesterone can be used to treat uterine cancer once it has been diagnosed (Apgar BS et al 2000).

    flax lignans may be of help.

    Oh - the second most interesting thing (next to I3C) is that there are several labs which offer several types of testing of the cancer (her own cancer) in petri dishes to report what kills it and so to arrive at a personal strategy. LEF recommends using both labs: http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-024.shtml

    Rational Therapeutics, leading the way in custom-tailored, assay-directed therapy, provides personal cancer strategies based on the tumor response in the laboratory. This eliminates much of the guesswork prior to the patient undergoing the potentially toxic side effects of chemotherapy regimens that could prove to be of little value against their cancer. Rational Therapeutics may be contacted at:

    Rational Therapeutics, Inc.
    750 East 29th Street
    Long Beach, CA 90806
    Telephone: (562) 989-6455; Fax: (562) 989-8160
    Web site: www.rationaltherapeutics.com

    In addition to the EVA chemosensitivity testing, we advocate immunohistochemistry testing of your tumor to provide additional data that will assist in making treatment decisions. The importance of the immunohistochemistry test is described in the Cancer Treatment: The Critical Factors protocol. The immunohistochemistry test can be done if your physician sends a specimen of your tumor to a specialty laboratory called Impath (www.impath.com). Impath can be reached by calling (800) 447-5816. Impath also performs chemosensitivity testing of living tumors (fresh specimens). Because many chemotherapy patients' primary tumors were previously removed or irradiated, Impath can perform the immunohistochemistry test with a frozen or parraffin-preserved tissue sample that is accessible through the pathology laboratory that examined your previous tumor(s).

    Rydra

    LEF protocol: http://www.lef.org/protocols/cancer/cancer_critical_factors_01.htm
     
    Gestalt likes this.
  18. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    And here is something of general interest...did you know it takes BH4 to make CoQ10? NO WONDER I CANT MAKE IT! (I have 3 genes limiting my BH4):
    http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-022h.shtml#prevmetast
    Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) is synthesized in humans from tyrosine through a cascade of eight aromatic precursors. These precursors require eight vitamins, which are vitamin C, B2, B3 (niacin) B6, B12, folic acid, pantothenic acid, and tetrahydrobiopterin as their coenzymes.

    Since the 1960s, studies have shown that cancer patients often have decreased blood levels of coenzyme Q10 (Lockwood et al. 1995; Folkers 1996; Ren et al. 1997). In particular, breast cancer patients (with infiltrative ductal carcinoma) who underwent radical mastectomy were found to have significantly decreased tumor concentrations of CoQ10 compared to levels in normal surrounding tissues. Increased levels of reactive oxygen species may be involved in the consumption of CoQ10 (Portakal et al. 2000). These findings sparked interest in the compound as a potential anticancer agent (NCCAM 2002). Cellular and animal studies have found evidence that CoQ10 stimulates the immune system and can increase resistance to illness (Bliznakov et al. 1970; Hogenauer et al. 1981; NCCAM 2002).

    CoQ10 may induce protective effect on breast tissue and has demonstrated promise in treating breast cancer. Although there are only a few studies, the safe nature of CoQ10 coupled with this promising research of its bioenergetic activity suggests that breast cancer patients should take 100 mg up to 3 times a day. It is important to take CoQ10 with some kind of oil, such as fish or flax, because dry powder CoQ10 is not readily absorbed.

    In a clinical study, 32 patients were treated with CoQ10 (90 mg) in addition to other antioxidants and fatty acids; six of these patients showed partial tumor regression. In one of these cases the dose of CoQ10 was increased to 390 mg and within one month the tumor was no longer palpable, within two months the mammography confirmed the absence of tumor. In another case, the patient took 300 mg of CoQ10 for residual tumor (post non-radical surgery) and within 3 months there was non residual tumor tissue (Lockwood et al. 1994). This overt complete regression of breast tumors in the latter two cases coupled with further reports of disappearance of breast cancer metastases (liver and elsewhere) in several other case (Lockwood et al. 1995) demonstrates the potential of CoQ10 in the adjuvant therapy of breast cancer.

    There are promising results for the use of CoQ10 in protecting against heart damage related to chemotherapy. Many chemotherapy drugs can cause damage to the heart (UTH 1998; ACS 2000; NCCAM 2000; Dog et al. 2001), and initial animal studies found that CoQ10 could reduce the adverse cardiac effects of these drugs (Combs et al. 1977; Choe et al. 1979; Lubawy et al. 1980; Usui et al. 1982; Shinozawa et al. 1993; Folkers 1996).

    Caution: Some studies indicate that CoQ10 should not be taken at the same time as chemotherapy. If this were true, it would be disappointing, because CoQ10 is so effective in protecting against adriamycin-induced cardiomyopathy. Adriamycin is a chemotherapy drug sometimes used as part of a chemotherapy cocktail. Until more research is known, it is not possible to make a definitive recommendation concerning taking CoQ10 during chemotherapy. For more information please see the Cancer Chemotherapy protocol.
     
  19. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    The 3 things I've most consistently heard protect against hormonal cancers are: I3C/DIM, D3, and selenium. I even had this info printed on th ehormone lab I get. (They also said exercise helps you to make the right hormones -- so maybe it's the insulin link they are picking up there). Here's what LEF says about selenium and endo:
    http://www.lef.org/protocols/cancer/uterine_cancer_01.htm?source=search&key=endometrial cancer cure

    Selenium
    Because selenium is a trace mineral found in soil, the amount of selenium in plant foods relates to the quality of the soil the plants are grown in. Therefore, diet is not the best method of obtaining reliable amounts of selenium (Sundstrom H 1985).

    A low concentration of selenium in the body may be a contributing factor in uterine carcinogenesis (Sundstrom H et al 1986, 1984). Selenium works against cancer cells through antioxidant activity (Zhao L et al 2001), preventing or slowing tumor growth (Lou H et al 1995). Selenium is linked to a decreased risk of developing various types of gynecological cancers (Cunzhi H et al 2003; Drozdz M et al 1989; Sundstrom H et al 1986; Sundstrom H et al 1989).

    A dosage of 400 micrograms (mcg) has been proposed as a safe daily dietary selenium intake (Yang G et al 1994). High doses (more than 910 mcg/day) can result in a rare condition called selenosis, is characterized by gastrointestinal upset, hair loss, white blotchy nails, fatigue, and irritability (Kaur R et al 2003; Sundstrom H 1985).
     
  20. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    NOTE TO ALL - Look what Lef says about I3C/DIM and auto-immune:

    http://www.lef.org/newsletter/2010/...htm?source=search&key=endometrial cancer cure

    I3C was found to be superior to 80 other compounds, including tamoxifen, for anticancer potential. Indoles, which down-regulate estrogen receptors, have been proposed as promising agents in the treatment and prevention of cancer and autoimmune diseases such as multiple sclerosis, arthritis, and lupus.

    Replacement of all the chemically altered estrogen drugs, such as tamoxifen, with a new generation of chemically altered indole drugs that fit in the aryl-hydrocarbon (Ah) receptor and regulate estrogen indirectly may prove beneficial to cancer patients (Bitonti et al. 1999). An I3C tetrameric derivative (chemically derived) is currently a novel lead inhibitor of breast cancer cell growth, considered a new, promising therapeutic agent for both ER+ and ER- breast cancer (Brandi et al. 2003).

    A summary of studies shows that indole-3-carbinol (I3C) can:

    Stop human cancer cells from growing (54-61%) and provoke the cells to self-destruct (apoptosis) (Telang et al. 1997)
    Inhibit human breast cancer cells (MCF7) from growing by as much as 90% in vitro (Ricci et al. 1999)
    Inhibit the growth of estrogen-receptor-positive breast cancer cells by 90%, compared to tamoxifen's 60%, by stopping the cell cycle (Cover et al. 1999)
    Prevent chemically induced breast cancer in rodents by 70-96%. Prevent other types of cancer, including aflatoxin-induced liver cancer, leukemia, and colon cancer (Grubbs et al. 1995)
    Inhibit free radicals, particularly those that cause the oxidation of fat (Shertzer et al. 1988)
    Stop the synthesis of DNA by about 50% in estrogen-receptor-negative cells, whereas tamoxifen had no significant effect (Cover et al. 1998)
    Restore p21 and other proteins that act as checkpoints during the synthesis of a new cancer cell. Tamoxifen has no effect on p21 (Cover et al. 1998)
    Virtually eliminate DNA damage and cancer prior to exposure to cancer-causing chemicals (in animals fed I3C) (Grubbs et al. 1995)
    Reduce DNA damage in breast cells by 91% (Devanaboyina et al. 1997)
    Life Extension Magazine July, 2010 issue now online

    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006...source=search&key=endometrial cancer cure I3C
    Numerous cell culture, animal, and human studies have demonstrated I3Cs safety and tolerability,20-22 along with its targeted ability to suppress cancer growth and induce programmed cell death in a variety of tumors, including those associated with breast, prostate, endometrial, leukemia, and colon cancers.1
     

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