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Methylation test results: advice needed & welcomed

Discussion in 'Diagnostic Guidelines and Laboratory Testing' started by helen1, Sep 27, 2013.

  1. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    Just got these sad results from health diagnostics and research institute and wonder what to do about them. Any advice most welcome.

    oxidized glutathione 0.54 0.16 - 0.50
    reduced glutathione 3.2 3.8 - 5.5

    s-adenosylmethionine (SAMe) 220 221- 256
    s-adenosylhomocysteine (SAH) 53.6 38 - 49

    5 CH3 tetrahydrafolate 10.7 8.4 - 72
    10 formyl tetrahydrafolate 5.9 1.5 - 8.2
    5 formyl tetrahydrafolate 2.0 1.2 - 11.7
    tetrahydrafolate 0.49 0.5 - 6.8
    folic acid 9.3 8.9 - 24
    folinic acid (WC) 8.0 9 - 35
    active folate (RBC) 327 400 - 1500

    adenosine 22.9 16.8 - 21.4

    I don't understand how I have any folic acid as I haven't eaten any enriched wheat products in over a year and no wheat at all for 4 months or more. Very few grains too except for the occasional brown rice or quinoa.
    I eat a lot of folinic rich veggies plus I was taking folinic acid for several months before the test, so don't understand that low score.
    Not sure about the significance of the different folates (except folic acid and folinic acid).
    I've been supplementing with methylfolate titrated up to 400 mcg for 6 months and adB12 1500 mcg, mB12 1000 mcg. Plus all the cofactors.
    Looks like I need a lot more methylfolate. Just started supplementing with SAMe.
    Any other ideas?
    Anyone have success improving their glutathione?
    Anyone know the significance of a high adenosine level?
    Thanks in advance.
    xo
  2. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    Just tried to edit the spacing of the numbers, but it didn't work. Sorry. Hope it doesn't make you cross-eyed.
  3. Helen

    Helen Senior Member

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    Hi Helen1!

    Don´t you take any methylcobalamin? Your MTRR mutations indicate a high need of B12!

    Did you see the Interpretation guide from Rich Van Konynenburg that should be available here?
    I think it is possible to get some answers from the lab too.

    Helen
  4. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

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    Have your levels of B12 been tested? Also a full blood count that includes MCV would be useful to get a more complete picture.

    I don't think they're sad results. They match up with your genetic predispositions which means it gives you a good direction to pursue. A methylation protocol may be very helpful for you.
  5. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    Helen! I just corrected my post (changed mfolate to mB12) so yes, I've been taking mB12 for about a year. Have just had a look at Rich's explanation. But he doesn't say what to do about specific highs or lows. Have sent an email to the lab to ask for an analysis and they gave me a number to phone on Mon. so will likely do that. But people here are often so much more knowledgeable, as you may have noticed...

    Sea, yes I've been following a hybrid SMP/freddd protocol for about a year, with little CFS symptom improvement, although my MCV is improving slowly (96 to 94 in the past year), MMA improved too, other labs improved except B2 and B6 (decreased), even though supplementing. The only symptoms that have improved are gut ones, which is significant.
    I'm thinking I need a lot more mfolate and mb12 (or hydroxb12?). What do you think?
    Sea likes this.
  6. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

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    I agree you need more methylfolate and possibly more B12 too. It's good that your MCV is shifting downwards. I'm not sure what is optimal for that. Mine was 103 last test.

    Sorry I can't offer any knowledge about the rest of your test other than to note it's obvious methylation is not yet kicking along nicely
  7. Helen

    Helen Senior Member

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    How much MCbl have you been taking and how often? Did you take it together with folates all that time?
    The B12 and folates are the most important to get the methylation to work, but you have probably seen the discussions about other SNP´s that can affect the methylation according to Dr. Yasko.
    I had about the same values as you after one year on Rich´s protocol and I was rather surprised to the low values as I have tried to eliminate the sources that consumes glutathione as dental amalgam and mold. Surprisingly I got to know that I have Lyme disease when my spinal fluid was analysed together with blood. I must have had lyme for more than three years according to symptoms. So today I guess that the ongoing infection didn´t give my reduced glutathione a chance to increase. Maybe there is something in this information for you too?

    I think you should be able to handle methylcobalamin, as you have only a few COMT mutations (I do with 5 of six possible defects). And high daily doses, preferably injections as a test, to compensate for your MTRR mutations. With injections, that give you a high dose, you would probably feel a difference rather soon.

    You probably know that there are no valid B12 labtests today, even if they give a clue when positive. High B12 in blood can be false positive if you don´t have enough folates to make use of the B12. My experiences from myself and others is that B12 in blood should be very high if we want to feel OK.
  8. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    Sea: as far as MCV goes, 80-90 is ideal (I've seen narrower ranges such as 83-88). Above 90 points to B12, folate, or/and B6 deficiencies. Below 80 points to iron deficiencies. Your 103 is definitely a concern.

    Helen: I didn't know mold and mercury use up glutathione but it makes sense doesn't it as glutathione is an antioxidant. I think I do have a dental mercury issue and am trying to come to a decision on what to do about it. Sorry to hear about your Lyme diagnosis, that's tough.

    From what I've read, the methylmalonic acid (MMA) urine test plus MCV blood test are pretty accurate for determining B12 levels, although MMA is more accurate for long term trends rather than short term changes. And I think I read that high MCV can indicate other anemias as well not just B12 although B12 is by far the most common with a high MCV. I use the sublingual Enzymatic Therapy and Source Naturals for mB12 and adB12 which seems to be working since my MCV and MMA have both decreased in the past year, indicating improved B12 status.

    But I'm going to titrate upwards with the B12s as well as mfolate, B6 and B2. Very slowly and carefully.

    Thanks for your responses, much appreciated. Does anyone know anything about adenosine levels?
    Sea likes this.
  9. Helen

    Helen Senior Member

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    [quote="Helen: I didn't know mold and mercury use up glutathione but it makes sense doesn't it as glutathione is an antioxidant. I think I do have a dental mercury issue and am trying to come to a decision on what to do about it. Sorry to hear about your Lyme diagnosis, that's tough.

    helen1 -I recommend watching this seminar. Rich van Konynenburg explains the important role of gluathione a.o.
    http://iaomt.media.fnf.nu/2/skovde_2011_me_kroniskt_trotthetssyndrom/

    From what I've read, the methylmalonic acid (MMA) urine test plus MCV blood test are pretty accurate for determining B12 levels, although MMA is more accurate for long term trends rather than short term changes. And I think I read that high MCV can indicate other anemias as well not just B12 although B12 is by far the most common with a high MCV.

    -According to a Swedish B12 expert and experienced doctor, there are no tests that are accurate for determining B12 levels if they show a normal value. They might be false. But if a test shows an abnormal level it is accurate.

    I use the sublingual Enzymatic Therapy and Source Naturals for mB12 and adB12 which seems to be working since my MCV and MMA have both decreased in the past year, indicating improved B12 status.

    But I'm going to titrate upwards with the B12s as well as mfolate, B6 and B2. Very slowly and carefully.[/quote]

    -Sounds like a good idea. Hope you will feel much better from that. And it seems like high doses of B12 gives a good protection from mercury if you choose to have the amalgam removed.
    helen1 likes this.
  10. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    Helen, where did you find the info about high doses of B12 protecting from mercury? I'd like to know more about that.
  11. Helen

    Helen Senior Member

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    helen1
    It is experiencies from 1-200 people (maybe moore) who have been sick from dental amalgam. For about 30 years these people, and many more, have been organised, and as Sweden is a small country we have been able to network and there have been lots of meetings with lectures. We have noticed that those who were lucky to get high doses of vitamin B12 and folates before and during amalgam removal seems to have recovered better, or at least haven´t worsened from the mercury exposure during the removal.

    This could be explained by the fact that we now have seen that all who have been gene tested so far have mutations in the MTRR/MTR and the MTHFR genes ( like people here also have). And as vitamin B12 also is an antioxidant, it makes sence.

    "High doses" of vitamin B12 for these people = injected methylcobalamin at least three times a week. All of them have taken folic acid as we haven´t access to bioactive forms from prescriptions.
  12. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    Thanks Helen, that's fascinating.
    I do have very high serum levels of B12 (1300 at last count).
    I've just decided to order Andrew Cutler's book and get properly informed. I do think mercury may well be a big part of my problem.
  13. Helen

    Helen Senior Member

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    We are quite a few who I know who have to have B12 levels around 4000 to feel OK from B12. So if the numbers in our different labtests are possible to compare, you shouldn´t bother. According to knowledgeable doctors the labtests are not always useful. Vitamin B12 has never proved to be dangerous, though there are questions about too much of folates.

    With mutations that can impair your methylation/detoxification mercury is probably a problem. And even a tiny dose of mercury, without considering the genetics, impairs methylation according to Professor Richard Deth.

    Go slowly if you choose to get your amalgam removed, and with all possible supports. Cutler and others will guide you. The most important is to choose a dentist who really believes that you might get sick from mercury. If not he or she will not protect you properly. www.iaomt.org And every piece of amalgam has to be removed carefully. After the last filling is removed, people often start to recover if the exposure hasn´t been to bad.

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