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Methylation study and C4A

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by xrunner, Feb 13, 2012.

  1. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    Surrey
    I just had a look at the paper on the methylation study done by Rich and Dr Nathan.
    Patients were also tested for some inflammation markers including C4A, in addition to mehtylation related isssues.

    I don't understand what the link between this and methylation problems.
    Was the protocol successfull in lowering inflammtion, in particular C4A? Was this an addtitional dimension the study looked at in order to explain results or allow further improvements by other treatment?

    Any explanation appreciated.
     
  2. Rosebud Dairy

    Rosebud Dairy Senior Member

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    I think C4A might have been measured at the end of the study at the suggestion of a practicing physician who may be theorizing that some people don't get better from chronic inflammation perhaps because of methylation issues. Maybe they are hoping to link the two, as we are getting genetics on both, and are treating both, but are still asking why some people may not be getting better by just doing the inflammation or just the methylation protocol. Maybe it is because of methylation AND inflammation (caused by neurotoxins, mycotoxins, etc.), and that would be an exciting breakthrough indeed for many many people, as this would give objective blood markers and genetics for many problems that many PWME's have that could not only be measured, but also could be treated.

    I don't know the whole back story on this, though.........
     
  3. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    Surrey
    Thank you Rosebud.
    When you say "they treating both inflammation and methylation" do you know how specifically they are treating inflammation?
     
  4. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    N. California
    Good question. Where is Rich? He could answer this.
     
  5. Rosebud Dairy

    Rosebud Dairy Senior Member

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    http://www.survivingmold.com/treatment/step-by-step

    Here is the treatment plan, sort of. I have followed these steps, but not while methylation was being supported. Probably not wise to do Cholestyramine or welchol until metals are cleared and methylation is going smoothly..........oh, the painful lessons I've learned!

    These steps can apply to Lyme and other illnesses where bacterial toxins play a role in keeping the patient sick despite antibiotics, etc.
     
  6. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, xrunner, DB and the group.

    I'm still kicking, but am increasingly swamped with emails and PMs from people requesting help with individual cases. I would like to help everyone, but am not able to do so. I'm also facing challenges to the hypothesis I've proposed, and I need to put up a decent defense, which requires time to study and think. So please be assured that I have not abandoned the forum, though I can't answer everything addressed to me at the moment.

    With regard to the question about C4a, it's true that we measured it and some other parameters at the recommendation of Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker. Several of the patients in the study had abnormal values, even after 6 months of methylation treatment. As you know, most of the patients in the study, while reporting significant benefit, were not completely recovered.
    Dr. Shoemaker believes that several of them had biotoxin illness, perhaps from mold exposure in their homes. He may be right about that. Our study was limited, and we were not able to go on to explore these issues. My current view is that the methylation treatment does indeed address the core of the pathophysiology of ME/CFS. However, for most PWMEs, this is not enough to produce complete recovery. My view at this point is that in most cases it is also necessary to treat the etiologies, i.e. the root causes that brought about the glutathione depletion and produced the vicious circle mechanism that the methylation treatment deals with. In addition to the etiologies, I think that other toxins and pathogens can accumulate during the illness, because the immune system and the detox system are not functioning normally and are not able to dispose of toxins or defeat pathogens. Even though the methylation cycle function can be brought closer to normal and glutathione can be raised in most PWMEs wth methylation treatment, the etiologies and accumulated toxins and/or pathogens in most cases will need to be treated directly and specifically as well. The particular ones differ from one case to another, but the possibilities of which I'm currently aware, based on experience with cases, are as follows: Lyme disease and coinfections; biotoxin illness, especially due to water-damage in buildings; high body burdens of toxic metals, especially mercury; entrenched viral and possibly retroviral infections that are able to hide from the immune system, such as by producing nagalase; HPU (hemopyrolactamuria, also called KPU or kryptopyroluria); serious gut dysbiosis; and deficiencies of essential nutrients.

    That's where it stands at the moment, from my point of view, for whatever that'sworth.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     

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