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Methylation Results - Any help appreciated

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by beezie, Jun 27, 2014.

  1. beezie

    beezie

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    Hi guys, firstly a big hello to everyone here, thank you all for your input. This is my first post, I have been lurking in the background on this forum for sometime trying to gather as much information as possible to help me with my situation. For the past 6 years I have suffered mild fatigue alongside a burning pain in my bladder, isspect this is caused by mast cell dysfunction due to low BH4. In addition I have always suffered with mood and concentration issues, I was diagnosed as ADD when i was 14. The past 6 years of tests and research has led me to investigate my genetics and methylation cycle function. This week received my methylation panel from ELN. Having looked over the panel with the help of Rich's methylation panel interpretation its seems that I have a methylation cycle block.

    I had planned to start with my CBS upregualtion addressing ammonia, sulphur and going low protein. I am a little confused though as most people with CBS upregualtion have low homocysteine, mine is very high at 13.1 umol/l. I'm assuming that is high as the rest of the cycle is running very slow? Markers that indicate that CBS is a problem for me include high ammonia, high taurine, low citrulline, decreased methionine, elevated hippuric, decreased fumerate, low manganese and low molybenum. My urine sulfate sticks have me at around between 800 and 1200, indicating that I am producing too much sulfate another sign of CBS upregulaion. I also produced a lot of hydrogen sulphide as indicated by he Protea Biopharma test.

    If anyone could give me any tips ect based on my results that would be greatly appreciated

    Many thanks

    Rhys
     

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  2. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Hi,
    I am sorry I am not really an expert about the question you're asking. Just noticed you mentioned high homocysteine, which is a problem I have too. Actually a value of ~13 wouldn't be considered "very high", it's probably moderately high.

    In any case are you taking any supplements to help it? A balanced mix of methyl-folate and methyl-B12 is usually effective. B6 and B2 may also be required, if Hcy levels don't budge.
     
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  3. Nana86

    Nana86

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    Hi!
    I am also no expert, but I think since your cystathione levels are pretty low and your homocysteine is high it doesn´t really look like a CBS-upregulation.

    But you definitely seem to have a methylation cycle block (low reduced glutathione, high homocysteine, some folate metabolites on the low side).
    As far as I know for supporting glutathione synthesis you should try to get enough protein in your diet, take vitamin b6. For glutathione recycling you need things like Vitamin C and E, selenium is also often low under such circumstances.
    For lifting the methylation cycle block you should take Methyfolate/ Tetrahydrofolate, Methylcobalamin and Biotin.

    If you can afford it, I think you should also get your mineral status checked (magnesium, zinc, potassium, calcium, selenium etc.).
    Your body should first have enough of the minerals which it needs to build new cells and tissues. At the same time you should look for a good B-Complex. Then add essential fatty acids to your regimen. The last thing to do in my opinion is to add the methylation stuff (B12, Folate etc.). When the methylation cycle block is lifted your body will need a lot of those nutrients and if they´re not there in sufficient amounts you´ll probably feel worse instead of better.

    Wish you all the best :)

    Nana
     
    beezie likes this.
  4. beezie

    beezie

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    Hi guys, thanks a lot for the replies.

    Pete, yes I have been using a mix of p5p, mb12, Hydrox B12, THF, yasko multi, b complex and TMG. However I recently stopped this after finding out I was homozygous for the CBSA360A gene. I was not sure if i was adding fuel to the fire.

    Nana - I think you are correct. Although I have the CBS+/+ it does not look like it is draining draining the metabolites from the methylation cycle. Rather it looks like I have low flow into the transsulfuration pathway. I know through organic acid and amino acid testing that I run low on B6. My low serine levels may also be contributing to the low flow. I plan to work on improving the flow with 100mg p5p, 100mg B2, magnesium and phosphatidylserine. I am also going to add TMG to improve my BHMT pathways. I want to get this up and running converting homocysteine back to methionine to feed the cycle. I will also use Rich's simplified protocol along side this. Regarding the nutrients, I have them tested every three months or so. Magnesium tends to run low but in range (RBC), manganese and moly also run low but have increased since I have reduced my protein intake, selenium is ok and zinc is still low but getting much better.

    Once again thanks for you input.

    If anyone else would like to comment please do

    Cheers

    Rhys
     
  5. Helen

    Helen Senior Member

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    @beezie I think it would be a good idea to check your detox profile too, in particular if you have GST SNP`s.
     
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  6. AkeBono

    AkeBono

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    Hi Rhys,
    I'm also a newbie here (but not a newbie in the health issues).
    Did you by any chance tested your gut? Or did you try to fix it first before adressing methylation issues? If you post also your gut test results maybe it will be more clear. you can get some hints from your organic acids profile but gut profile should be better.
     
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  7. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    Surrey
    @beezie
    Hi,
    I'm not an expert but comparing your numbers to mine a few years ago and others I have seen, your results don;t look too bad.
    According to Rich notes a sam/sah below below 4.5 shows low methylation but your's just above 4, so isn't too far off, also your gsh is on the low side but normal consistent with a slight methylation block. Your sam+sah is 281, I think, and that also would not point to a cbs upregulation issue.
    Tips? 1) I'd keep it simple and stick to Rich's protocol and leave everything else, genetics, mast cells etc to one side. Considering your results you should be able to normalise your gsh and all the rest very quickly.
    2) Regarding your chronic bladder problems and oxidised gsh (high), I'd test for UTIs including E-coli, Lyme disease (which can affect the bladder) and Mycoplasma sp.. The cause of it all could be a biofilm forming infection, that's where I'd place my bet anyhow. Best wishes.
     
    beezie likes this.
  8. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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  9. beezie

    beezie

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    Hey thanks for the replies

    AkeBono I have performed 2 CSA's, one through metametrix and one through doctors data, I will post them up. I am also currently awaiting the results of another doctors data CSA I performed last week. I have been using an array of natural anit fungal and anti microbial products over the last year and a half with no luck, they haven't improved my bladder pain. I have also had my gut integrity tested and it is very leaky, I have performed two gut healing protocols and am just about to start using the Yasko leaky gut RNA formula. In addition I had a gut fermentation profile performed, it showed very high levels of ethanol in the blood after consuming a glucose solution, my doctor believes yeast is the main cause of this high level. Oh and I have a two organic acids tests performed, the metmetrix test showed no signs of D arabinose where the Great plains test showed high levels. I will have to scan the great plains test and upload it tomorrow. Thanks for your advice
     

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  10. beezie

    beezie

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    Xrunner thanks for your input. I have had a look through rich's interpretation guide and a few users profiles he gave advice on. There was one that was very similar to mine, they had the CBS but low cystathione and high homocysteine. Here is the link http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/rich-suggestions-for-cbs-mutation.18675/

    I will keep it simple and use his protocol with a little b6, b2 and magnesium to improve flow in the transulfation pathway.

    I will investigate the possibility of UTI's and biofilm further with my doctor. I have actually just ordered a heap of yaskos Bactisolve, apparently it is useful in breaking down biofilm

    thanks again
     
  11. AkeBono

    AkeBono

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    hey beezie,
    The last Doctors Data you've posted showed a lot of issues IMO; It would be best to have the fresh results to compare. Wonder if you did treat them, how you did and what results did you get from treatment.
    I have to add that some of these gram negative bacteria can use B-vitamins for their benefit. that's why i suggested to solve the gut BEFORE starting treating methylation. I was also jumping in the methylation wagon without solving gut infections. not a good idea.

    4+ Alpha hemolytic strep / 3+ Enterobacter cloacae / 4+ Klebsiella pneumoniae ssp pneumoniae
    1+ Candida parapsilosis / 1+ Rhodotorula mucilaginosa

    My experience:
    My last test showed also Enterobacter cloacae & Klebsiella plus others. Doctors treated them with Ciproflaxicin 3 times x 5 days. Worst choice for me. No more rx antibiotics for me. After Cipro I got worst and worst. Treated also with oregano oil but didnt know i have also h.pylori, candida and mal-digestion and the bacteria grew back.

    you should watch your diet cause enterobacter/klebsiella/e.coli familly are fermenting/putrefacting ones. They preffer sugar of course, glucose, but also lactose (diary specially if you dont digest them), and undigested proteins (or too much) plus / starches especially resistant ones. So if you have mal-digestion of proteins starches lactose you should solve it.

    I had hard times with supplements containing starches, lactose or FOS, GOS and didnt know why. Watch out your probiotics ingridients also. Last doc told me Enterobacter may become resistant to cephalosporins (class of antibiotics) after first round.

    All of them increase their number in an alkaline environment and they after produce a more alkaline environment. That is : could be another cause before they appeared like candida or maldigestion round of antibiotics and lost of acid forming bacteria.

    I’m wondering what your current doctor say about after the test results will come.

    Questions for you: how’s your diet? (in terms of lactose, sugars, proteins, starches)? hows your digestion? What kind of probiotics did you used and how did you feel?
     

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