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Methylation.... Protocols and Gains

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by place, May 8, 2012.

  1. place

    place Be Strong!

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    My hope is to get an updated thread going of people who are working through the process. My hope is that this can be a quick OUTLINE. Please, please Please. Type out how much your taking and when your taking it. If there is a reason for the schedule- please explain why.


    Weeks/Months on Protocol: 4 wks

    Progress Made:
    • Energy up by 3-5. 6-9 out of 10
    • Acne going away
    • anxety about coversing with people gone
    • Less PEM crashing

    Symptoms Remaining
    • Chronic sinus infections
    • muscle fatigue has gotten worse
    • my memory is kinda worse- it was its best when on lovenox- so that is what I am judging it on.
    • Limited activities
    • Food sensitivities
    • Still can't have a beer without repercussions =(

    My Protocol
    Am
    50 DHEA
    2.5 Cortif
    1200 Fish oil
    100 Antibotic
    ALA
    1200 mucinex
    1000 C
    3 mg Mb12
    3 mg ADb12
    500 Lcarintine
    25 Zinc
    200 Potassium
    400 CoQ10

    Afternoon
    1200 Fishoil
    olive leaf- I take this to prevent cold sores and it does a great job.
    50 DHEA
    25 Zinc
    VE- soon to add
    B- Complex- The one without Folic Acid
    1000 C
    TMG
    200 Potassium

    PM
    75 Noritriptyline
    3 mg Melatonin
    1000 C
    100 Antibiotic
    5000 D
    10 mg Sigulaur
    200 potassium

    Through out the day I take mb12 up to 6 of them and more potassium as needed.
  2. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Which l-carnitine are you taking. The fumarate is the one that works best for most, the Sigma Tau made carnitine used by Jarrow and Doctor's best. Also, you need to titrate the mb12 quantity up to about 20-25mg over several steps for maximum effectiveness. I find a combo of such as 20mg Jarrow, 3mg Enzymatic Therapy gives best results short of having to do the deep penetration of the CNS.
  3. place

    place Be Strong!

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    Thanks Freddd for you help! Really. I know answering all these questions cuts into your life, but please know you are making a difference in so many others. =)

    I will check on the fumarate. Right now I am at 8mg of mb12. I increase it by 2-3 per day each week. Is there a mb12 that has a higher dose than 1mg that is as effective?

    Also... i read a post on betterhealthguy on methylation and the post/article describe me to a T. I almost cried. All the lab percentages were identical to my results over the years found by many doctors.

    It like all the pieces are coming together. I have a fibro doc, a lyme (i don't have it) guy/nueropath, infertility doc in california, and all the test are point towards this. Needless to say I am supper excited.

    Thanks!
    place
  4. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Place,

    The Jarrow 5mg is a 5 star also. I use a combination of Jarrow and Enzymatic Therapy as that produces the best results. In addition to to my injections which are not as good as the Jarrow and ET, but needed to allow diffusion into the CSF-CNS, I take 30mg of Jarrow and 3mg of ET on a single continueous dose over a 3+ hour period daily. In the three hour period I get roughly a 33% (estimated) absorption which gives a high enough percentage of these superior b12s to penetrate the CNS-CSF with them. This is the smallest dose I get that noticable CNS-CSF penetration with.
  5. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    freddd, do you take 120 odd mg of methyl b12 a day?
  6. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Aquariusgirl,

    I take 30mg (3x10mg) by injection which is fully absorbed and once a day I take 33mg of subligual for quality which in 3 hrs nets out to about 33% (11mg absorbed). I did a series of trials taking it up to 180mg injected per day but quantity did not make up for lack of the 5 star quality in the injectable. I will try it again when I get a 5 star injectable mb12. It may be that there is the one threshold effect and then no further change.
  7. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    and you are injecting methyl b12?
  8. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Aquariusgirl,

    Oh yes, methylb12. Hydroxycbl gives me lots of acne type lesions starting with my scalp and face within a couple of days and spreading to my body if continued as the tissue continues breaking down rapidly with the hydroxycbl. Also, my CNS resumes deterioration in 3 days on hydroxycbl or broken down mb12 (hydroxcbl). Adenosylb12 is way too fragile (breaks down to hydroxycbl in 5 days after preparation) and doesn't need to be injected as it's halflife in the mitochondria is months and months and I do very well with 60mg sublingual dose once every couple of weeks.

    The ONLY effect detectable of the 30mg injected SC is in my CNS which starts breaking down progressively in 3 days without it. Because of the short halflife I need to take it as 3x10mg SC which gives me an average 1.25mg/hour going into serum manintaining my serum cobalamin at an estimated 200,000pg/ml which is high enough to be penetrating the CSF-CNS sufficiently to more or less prevent additional breakdown and maintains an equilibrium that allows be to live normally instead of ending up in a wheelchair in diapers in a month.

    If you have any more specific questions I will answer those too.
  9. place

    place Be Strong!

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    My questions is.... how long does does one spread out there mb12? I do notice a slight increase in energy after I have taken a tab or two. Instead of taking 3 at once, should I spread it out over 6 hours? Say one every two hours?
  10. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    The effects are different as a single dose versus extended distributed dose. More all at once penetrates. As you work up in dose and after changing to the 5 star brands and getting all the needed cofactors in place (makes far more difference that another mb12 pill) then it will be time for a 50mg trial to tell if there is a hard to penetrate CNS/CSF situation. In the mean time try thing both ways. During the time of maximum healing for me I basically had an mb12 in my mouth 12 hours a day, one after another.
  11. place

    place Be Strong!

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    Well... it looks like people are more into having their own thread instead of group. So I am hijacking my own thread!

    My intent was to simplify the learning process but as I make my own way through the process, I feel that you have to wade through all this stuff to learn. You have to become the expert in order to solve your own private mystery.

    Updates: The stuff in green is the new stuff from when I posted last on week 4, I am currently on week 7

    Weeks/Months on Protocol: 7 wks

    Progress Made:
    • Energy up by 4-9 out of 10, mfolate has giving me an unatural amount of energy, like freakish. Freddd said I need to lower my mb12 while increase mfolate. I can always tell I have more energy when my sense of humor comes back.
    • Acne going away- its going, going and gone ( a few left but nothing to dwell on)
    • anxety about coversing with people gone
    • Less PEM crashing
    • Increased Muscle energy production- started taking 2000 of l-carnitine, solved it in 2-4 days. I feel like I'm building strength- weird I know. I should have some measurable physical outcomes soon.
    Symptoms Remaining or Gaining
    • Chronic sinus infections
    • my memory is kinda worse- it was its best when on lovenox- so that is what I am judging it on. still bad
    • Limited activities- not sure where I am with this, I have had a sinus infection the last week. So?
    • Food sensitivities- trying to be good on this and not eat my heavy offenders
    • Still can't have a beer without repercussions =(- and I still cant. But I am staying off the sauce for other reasons so no big loss
    • This past month I have notice a ton of floaters in my vision, it's kinda freaking me out but I will need to do some research before I hit the panic button.
    • Sleep- not normal. I keep waking up at 6:00 am. I really like sleeping until 8:00 but my body won't let me now. So I roll around in bed for two hours. I still feel crappy when I wake up both at 6 and 8. But I think that has more to do with my constant sinus infections.

    My Protocol
    Am
    50 DHEA
    2.5 Cortif
    1200 Fish oil
    100 Antibotic
    ALA
    1200 mucinex
    1000 C
    5 mg Mb12
    3 mg ADb12
    1000 Lcarintine
    25 Zinc
    500 Potassium
    400 CoQ10
    Magnesium (not sure the dose?)
    1600 Mfolate

    Afternoon
    1200 Fishoil
    olive leaf- I take this to prevent cold sores and it does a great job.
    50 DHEA
    25 Zinc
    VE- soon to add
    B- Complex- The one without Folic Acid
    1000 C
    TMG
    1000 L-carnitine
    500 Potassium
    Magnesium (not sure the dose?)
    1600 Mfolate
    5 mg Mb12
    PM
    75 Noritriptyline
    3 mg Melatonin
    1000 C
    100 Antibiotic
    5000 D
    10 mg Sigulaur
    500 potassium
    Magnesium (not sure the dose?)


    Through out the day I take more mb12 up to 5 of them and more potassium up to 3000. I take more if I need it.

    Short summary of progress:
    Went through a phase of anger for a couple weeks but it has subsided. Went through two weeks with very high dopamine where I would wake up giggiling. Sleep is not normal, keep waking up at 6.
    My patients for people is short when it comes to time issues. I almost had a melt down at my book club because these women could not shut up about their damn kids home work ( I swear to god, they talked about it for 1.5 hours, there was not enough wine to drown them out). I almost took my own life with a cheese knife. I forgot to bring my potassium, that would have helped...
    I had a two week period where I was losing muscle endurance. I have been an athlete all my life and this was like nothing I have seen before. It felt like my muscles were suffocating. Could not lift a frying pan! L- carnintine fixed that!!!
  12. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Are you really taking 100mg of DHEA a day!? If you are, let me tell you that that is a lot of DHEA, especially for a woman! I think there is a good chance you are converting most of that DHEA into tons of testosterone and estrogen. Too much of these two will lead to problems. Have you done any recent hormonal blood work?

    Also, DHEA is best taken early in the morning. This mimics the body's natural production spike.

    Definitely too much testosterone! :)

    PS. Noticed your new photo. Hope you like mine too!
  13. Gavman

    Gavman Senior Member

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    My internal sensor for most people requiring b2 is going. And the indicators i see here are: not being able to stop listening to other people crap on, having no choice but to listen. B2 is indicated in processing problems and eye floaters, it may help your floaters. It might help a couple of symptoms you have, not a cure all.

    As you get better, there will be psychological changes to - it sounds like your internal anxiety is going - with me it lowered my overbearing empathy, my focus on small details and my moral compass is no longer a constant stress. These changes are healthy and now you have a choice instead of treating people well out of anxiety,it becomes a want rather than a need.
  14. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Place,

    It does look like you are doing decently. Amzaing the difference a little carnitine can make. As long as everything else is in place muscle growth can happen with exercise and so on if you respond like I and many others.
  15. place

    place Be Strong!

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    Nano- we look like twins! I decided to fully commit to the forums after a few people were following my progression. I take the DHEA to increase my testosterone and estrogen for another medical condition. Hopefully, I will be dropping it in August.

    Gaveman- I seem to have the similar psychological traits. Glad to hear that they ease up, it does put a burden on things. I will look into the B2 I love you thread for more information. I still have yet to do the research but for some strange reason I though the floaters were associated with lyme? Thanks again for the information!


    Freddd- Thanks! I think I got all the recommendations from yesterdays posting marathon and I am going to decrease my mb12 to 10 and start taking them one after another. Unfortunately, the b12 taste good and I over salivate. I can make them last a max of 30 minutes. So I know I will have to go over the norm of everyone else =(
    I love carnitine. But I over did my exercise by digging a ditch after running two miles. So I decided to take 2 more carnitine around 7pm to see if it would reduce the PEM. It kept me up ALL night! So now I don't know if it helped because I'm tired from not sleeping! Sometimes you just cant win....


    Thanks everyone!
    Place

  16. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Place,

    When a person is getting a good response from these things one of the biggest risks is over doing. While a person suddenly feels much more energetic, there is still no more capacity. The muscles decrease and the mitochonddria are not working well and when they are not working well they reduce their numbers. Getting the mitochondria working allows the muscles to grow AND for more mitochondria to be made in existing cells. This is done through slowly building up exercise capacity and arobic capacity. While for me the presence of the carnitine did set all that off, I had been exercising for a year already when I started the carnitine so I was able to double the time on the Nordic Trac without consequence just on the improved capacity of the existing mitochindria.

    Enjoy the carnitine while you can. As you come to "normal" so does the energetic feeling. The muscles and all can rebuild in a year or so.


    I don't know about the DHEA at 100mg. I do take 25mg of it daily and 100mg or pregnenolone daily upon wakeup.. I also inject prescribed testosterone and have my hormones tested regularly. They had disappeared through the floor with the deficiencies. The balance between mb12 and adb12 can influence "anger" and other "limbic" moods..
  17. place

    place Be Strong!

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    Update:
    I was the missing B2! That really helped my vision issue and my mood. I do notice a small upswing in energy too. But I have been really sinus-y this past two weeks and that always kills my energy. The energy level is not a consistent thing. One day I have great energy and the next day I don't. Normally I can see a pattern with behavior or meds but its really random.

    Thanks Gaveman for the B2 suggestion!

    Not 100% but I think it did help with the anger issue and my processing issue. I think... at least I think I think, but can I really know for sure...

    Beer- Also I did have a couple of beers on Saturday night (I cant behave), with mild repercussions but nothing like before. Yeah! I know this is stupid to track but beer has yeast in it and I am mild sensitive/allergic to yeast and soy.
    Sinus- same old same old, but I have been more congested this past two weeks. However, we have not had a rain shower in two weeks and there is a ton of allergens in the air.

    Sleep- still sucks, keep waking up at 6! I

    Exercise- This past week I feel like I can really breath deep. Like I am really filing my lungs. Last week I had a fantastic run, I though it was due to my water retention (monthly water retention =). I always am able to exercise well two days prior to my period. I could go longer without stopping and go past my comfort heart rate of 140 (max heart rate for my age is 157 (85%) however, I was able to comfortable exercise at 150. Also, in years past I could not run in 80 degrees or higher tempters because I did not sweat enough- I have never been able to. However, I was able to run in 84 and am sweating like crazy! I am going to figure out how much potassium I will need fro a duration of exercise. Also some kind of electrolite (spelling?) suppliment. I can't drink sports drinks as they are made with soy.

    Fit bit- there is a new device that tracks your heart rate, steps taken, elevation changes/steps taken, calories taken and best of all your sleep movement patterns! My friend has one and loves it. I think it would be perfect for people who want to gradually increase the total daily activity. It all downloads to a website where you can see all your data. I just ordered it!

    50 Shades of Potassium!
    There are so many things that potassium fixes and I wanted to list them because I still find more uses for it. Please feel free to add your own symptoms
    • Afternoon Crash- I get really tired around 2-3 pm, I take 500-1000- of potassium and its gone
    • Anxiety- I have gotten to a point when I think negative thoughts, and I take some and I am all good. New slogan for Potassium? “Positive thoughts in a pill” Freddd you need to trademark that!
    • Mild-Depression- small…. Just a little uplifting.
    • Angry- it does not take care of it totally but it will take the edge off of it.
    • general feel like crap
  18. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    HI Place,

    You know, I take extra b2 also. I hadn't mentioned it specifically since it is part of fine tuning and personally, I never noticed much difference based on how much b2 I was taking but rather focused on a good balance of B-vitamins. I'm glad to hear about it. Also, you have expanded my view of potassium and may have hit the reason I have been feeling worse while having more low potassium spasm episodes. You identified to me some other signals, again thyankyou.
  19. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    australia (brisbane)
    thanks for the update,

    cheers!!!
  20. place

    place Be Strong!

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    Also!!!! I have noticed Potassium has a 24 hr. delay AND immediate effect. So if the day before, I don't take my standard 3000, the next day I will be tired and mildly feel these symptoms. If you take your 3000 on day 2, you won't feel as good on as on day one because you are playing catch up. Its so important to take it even if you just feeling fine!

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