Methylation or no B vitamins/B Complex?

[Lotus97]

My question is this: If I'm not doing methylation is it better to take no B vitamins at all? Or are they better than nothing?

I'm not sure I want to deal with methylation now. I hear people on these forums saying it's the best thing since sliced bread and others saying it has risks and can also make you feel worse. I had been taking Jarrow's B-Right for the past year, but after they added methyl folate to the formula I seemed to have a bad reaction to it. There have been other things going on such as a possible mercury exposure due to a cracked tooth with an amalgam filling that had to be removed. I stopped the B Right for a few days and I think I felt better then I took it and felt worse. I'm not 100% sure, but I don't feel like testing it again right now because I'm already not feeling too good.

 

[justy]

Hi Lotus, i also havent tried the methylation [protocols due to being unsure of the risks for me.
Instead i take 300mcg a day of injected (sub cut) Methyl B12. I find it very useful and has been the single biggest thing that has helped me so far.
However after a year on it, it has started to lose its effects. I know i have very poor antioxidant status - like many here - and B12 can mop up free rdical damage caused by this.

all the best, Justy

 

[Lotus97]

I've been taking B100 B complex for the past week. I don't seem to be doing worse, but since I started this thread I've read a couple threads saying how I could do damage to myself with the inactive B vitamins. How can I tell whether these are harming me? I've read about the MTHFR gene test. Do need to get that or is there another way to tell? I've already spent a lot of money on tests, but I also spend a lot of money on supplements so it would be good to know which ones I need.

Also, is there any harm in taking both inactive and active forms of B vitamins at the same time or in the same day? I just ordered some methylcobalamin. This was before I read Rich's methylation protocol suggesting hydroxocobalamin so I'm not sure which to take. I also have some P5P sublinguals which I actually bought before I knew about methylation. And I found out the my glutathione sublingual which I take 3 times a day has a small amount of

Riboflavin (as 2.25 mg flavin mononucleotide (Coenzymated) 1.6 mg​

 

[Lotus97]

I decided I'm going to start methylation, but I'm going to wait a bit before I start taking folinic acid/calcium folinate or methylfolate/5-MTHF (L-Methylfolate)/Metafolin/Quatrefolic (6S)-5-methyltetrahydrofolate glucosamine salt. I'm doing this because I think these are going to be the most likely to cause problems and also I've read that I should raise B-12 levels before I start folate supplementation. Once I start taking folinic acid and methylfolate do I need to stop taking folic acid or at least take folic acid at a separate time of day? I know Fredd has the problem of both folic acid and folinic acid blocking methylfolate, but is that a common problem? I don't mind stopping supplements with folic acid, but I have a few protein powders I like to take from time to time so I'd like to keep using them if at all possible. Here's Rich's opinion on folic acid (as of July 2012):

Folic acid is a synthetic oxidized form of folate that is used in nutritional supplements but is not found in natural foods that haven't been fortified with it. Some people are not able to convert it to the forms the body uses very well for genetic reasons, and then it can build up in the blood and may cause some problems, though there is not a complete consensus on that.

The simplified methylation protocol uses both folinic acid and methylfolate. Freddd's protocol uses only methylfolate.
Methylfolate is the form used in the methylation cycle. There is a methylation protocol in use that does incorporate folic acid. It is the one proposed by Dr. Vinitsky. He uses fairly large dosages of folic acid in his protocol, perhaps because the conversion efficiency can be low.

Folic acid does compete with the active folate forms for the same transporters.

I was also wondering about taking niacin (niacinamide and/or Inositol Hexanicotinate) in the process of methylation. I take niacin partially for boosting ATP and lowering cholesterol and also because I didn't see any reason not to. These quotes raise some questions however.

First quote is from the bottle of a supplement

When taking niacin, methylating factors such as folic acid, and vitamin B-12, choline and TMG should not be part of one's supplement program to protect the liver. When used in large doses (greater than 599 mg per day) hepatoxicity may occur, especially if preparation is sustained release. Monitor liver function tests.

Second quote is from this site: http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm

Actually excess niacin is metabolized by methylation and thus uses up methyl groups. One source suggests to aim for under 75mg (usually ~50mg) of niacin+niacinamide per day from supplements. If you are taking large quantities of B3, please get your homocysteine and SAM checked to make sure this niacin isn't excessively taxing the methyl metabolism. Likewise some supplements have lots of B6 (e.g. 100mg) and between 20 and 50mg per day of B6, or less, might be better.

If you are an over-methylator, meaning you have extra, then B3 is good because it uses them up, but if you are an under-methylator, meaning deficient, then giving extra B3 is bad because it drains an already poor supply.

 

[Ema]

Are there any further thoughts on niacin and methylation? Should undermethylators not take it in high doses?

I took my usual 5000mcg B12 dose after 350 mg of niacin this morning and immediately felt awful. It might have been a coincidence but now I'm wondering if niacin is a good idea or not.

Ema

 

[Critterina]

Ema,
I like 10-20 mg sublingual (NADH) for my niacinamide. I time it as such: MTHF/folinic, a bit later MB12 and AdB12, at least a couple of hours later, NADH. Not that your body will work the same way, but this seems to work for me.