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Methylation -- Detox -- Candida

Discussion in 'Fungal Infection (Yeast, Candida)' started by Lulu, Oct 19, 2012.

  1. Lulu

    Lulu

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    UPDATE: I actually just found some info explaining that repairing digestive system (dysbiosis, leaky gut) to be one of first steps in correcting methylation deficiency - yeast overgrowth must also be dealt with...

    Thanks to all for your help and I'm sorry for wasting your time.---------------

    Hello: I have not had the MTHFR testing, but plan on trying the protocol. My symptoms began 20 years ago and by now I'm very ill; my brain is mush - I've been bedridden for at least five years and my health is getting worse with each passing day...I sleep 20-22 hours a day and am lucky to be able to function a day or two a month - I'm fortunate that today I'm able to sit up a little to type this and hope that I make some sense.

    I've had pretty severe constipation problems for at least 10 years of opiate use, so I don't know if I absorb nutrients adequately and have all the signs and symptoms for Candida - so I was wondering if I should do a colon cleanse and separately, try to rid myself of Candida prior to beginning the Methylation protocol to maximize its effectiveness OR would it be worth it to begin the protocol...

    I'm also confused if one is to use Glutathione as part of the protocol.

    Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you so much.

    Lulu
  2. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I suggest not doing a colon cleanse. It may be too much for your debilitated condition.

    I've had success keeping candida at bay by using various antifungals - GSE (grapeFRUIT seed extract, cat's claw or capryistat (capryilic acid)). I take one for about a year, say GSE, then it will start to lose effectiveness, so then I switch to the next one, say caprylistat. For me, the candida causes flu like symptoms and extra fatigue, so these supps relieve that and provide a welcome extra level of functioning.

    For the constipation, I suggest greatly increasing your intake of magnesium to bowel tolerance. Magnesium in sufficient quantity will make your your bowels loose (think Phillip's Milk of Magnesia). So, gradually increase your intake until your bowels are very loose (diarrhea), then back off a bit and that is "your" dose.

    I use magnesium glycinate, a powder which dissolves in water, but most any form of magnesium is fine except magnesium oxide which doesn't absorb well.

    CoQ10 100mg helps my brain fog significantly.

    So I suggest trying these things first to see if they will help you get in a better place, then try the methylation protocol.

    I suggest starting with very tiny doses because it will restart detox. As the toxins come out, you will feel worse, so keep the doses small to keep any symptoms at a low level that you can tolerate. This is known as "start low and go slow"...

    Do you crave salt or salty foods?
  3. Lulu

    Lulu

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    Hello - oh, I hope I'm doing this right...thank you so much for your kind response. I'll take your advice on the Magnesium - presently I'm using a transdermal cream which doesn't work for the bowels.

    I have those antifungals on hand - have just never taken them, but will look into doing that now. I'm pretty sure I have a severe case of Candida...

    Thank you again for your response...I appreciate it so.

    I do take COQ10 - my mind is just so far gone very little helps...

    While I have horrible cravings for carbs and sweets, none for salty foods.

    L
  4. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    hello lulu

    welcome and what a terrible condition you are in :aghhh:

    The first thing that caught my attention is you mentioning
    Good to know:

    Opiates kill opiate receptors.
    Opiate receptors are responsible for endorphin production.
    Endorphins regulate your immune system, (probably) glutamate in the brain, pain sensation, give energy, ... You find these receptors mainly in your gut, brain, reproductive organs, pituitary axis.

    If you have the chance, have your adrenals checked with a salivary test (4 times a day), have them compared or have a look yourself to these test results: http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI Normal.html
    It shows the 7 stages of adrenal burn-out. Very important to know for what comes next.

    The good news is:
    1) you can restore the function of exhausted adrenals (but it takes time and often you don't recover 100%)
    2) you can restore the opiate receptors that were wiped out by the opiate medication (as well as food: gluten, milk)

    How?
    1) a doctor can prescribe hydrocortisone to support the adrenals. This can be risky if you suffer a viral infection like Pfeiffer or CMV I believe. Or you can drink one cup of licorice tea in the morning, not too much especially if you suffer low potassium or high tension. This won't trigger any viral activity as far as I'm informed and works very well.

    2) once your adrenals are not completely exhausted anymore and you are off opiates (medication, gluten and milk) for let's say 6 months, only then you can consider low dose naltrexone. During these 6 months doctors advise to take DPP IV enzyme to eliminate all further opiates left in your body.
    LDN is very strong stuff and it has changed my life completely. But it takes time and ultra low dose to start. If you like to read more about it: www.ldnscience.com, www.lowdosenaltrexone.org and if you enter the word here, you'll find lots of info.

    LDN supports the immune system and allows your body to do what it should do. However if you have Lyme disease or a heart defect, it won't fix that kind of problem. It stimulates the production of opiate receptors, which is huge but not a magic bullet.

    This is just my experience. I have no idea what happened to you 20 years ago.
  5. Lulu

    Lulu

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    Marlene:

    Wanted to thank you very much for your informative response...I definitely need to stop taking opiates as they also have acetaminophen...

    I'm so glad that the LDN has worked for you - I tried it several years ago and didn't have much success...perhaps my body wasn't in the right state. So much to know and my mind just doesn't work well enough anymore to understand most of it.

    I have very little energy, but wanted to tell you that I appreciate the time you took to share your experience. Continued best to you.

    L
  6. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I saw your update post. I still have leaky gut and candida. I'm hoping the methylation program will help with that. The main problem with absorbtion actually seems to be low stomach acid. I was taking betaine hydrochloride for a time for that. Once I started on a low level of methylation supps, that has straightened out on it's own and I don't need to take it anymore.

    There is a very simple "baking soda burp test" you can do to see if you have low stomach acid. Just google it.

    For the leaky gut, I did a food allergy test called Allatess and I'm avoiding all my allergenic foods. You can take drops to fix the allergies, but I couldn't deal with that on top of everything else. After a year or so of avoiding, I'm can tolerate many of my formerly allergenic foods again.

    Back to candida - Rich has suggested using Candex.

    The adrenal thing can be tricky. The glandulars seem to help some people, and others like me can't tolerate them. My adrenals are totally flatlined on adrenal saliva tests, but look ok on conventional tests.

    Rich says that glutathione depletion causes the hypothalmus and pituitary to lose their ability to signal the adrenals and thyroid, and that's why these organs don't function right. Restoring methylation function and glutathione may restore function.

    I'm currently supporting my adrenals with electrolytes, aka salt, vitamin C, and magnesium dissolved in water. Some people also need potassium, but I don't seem to need it for some reason. If your adrenals aren't working, you'll be leaking out these electrolytes like crazy and it helps to replenish them often. One sign you need this is salt craving which is why I asked about that.

    Have you had your thyroid thoroughly tested - you need a complete panel, not just TSH. The complete panel is TSH, free T3, free T4 and thyroid antibodies. My TSH looked fine, but my antibodies were through the roof, indicating autoimmune thyroiditis. I now take Armour Thyroid. This helps some with energy.

    ps. just saw your question about supplementing with glutathione. Some people do ok with it, but some don't tolerate it, and for all, it's a temporary measure. In general, it's better to supplement further upstream with the folic acid and B12. Once you break out of the methylation cycle block situation, it's possible the methylation cycle will start running properly by itself.
  7. Lulu

    Lulu

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    Caledonia - thank you so much - your post is so very helpful - I have severe cognitive problems so will take me a while to digest...I really thank you for taking the time to share your experience; so much made sense...

    Best,
    L
  8. Aileen

    Aileen Senior Member

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    I don't understand how gluten and milk connect in with opiates. I've been taking an opiate painkiller for migraines for years but it doesn't do much for me now and I'm having trouble tolerating it, so I'm definitely near the end of the road with it. Not going to go to another opiate. Thinking of trying LDN after I've been off it awhile but I don't understand the dietary connection. Would you please explain?
  9. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    hello aileen

    gluten and milk are natural opiates.

    all the best

    marlène

    ps: I have topamax to prevent migraines and it works fine now. Took a while to adapt (about a year let's say).
  10. Aileen

    Aileen Senior Member

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    Thanks Marlene. I had no idea. I guess I'm more clueless about food than I thought! I'm mostly off dairy now but eating a lot of bread. I guess that's the next thing that will have to go but I'm not sure what I'm going to find to eat. And if I'm off the natural opiates in foods, will that increase my pain levels? This is just so complicated.

    I'm on topamax too. Been on it for years but it doesn't help much. I've reduced the dose and am thinking of weaning off. Kind of in a holding pattern right now trying to decide on my next step while this virus gets under control -- if my Lauricidin ever gets here. I think my package is taking a provincial tour courtesy of Canada Post. :(
  11. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

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    I've tried more drugs to prevent migraine than I can shake a stick at. My current neuro says he has good success with some antiseizure med (can't remember which one(s)) in very high doses, titrated over a very long period of time. I told him no thanks.

    A few months ago I found a review of migraine preventatives on the NIH website and they found research showing pretty good results with good ole Coenzyme Q10, so I tried that. Nothing happened for about two months, then the migraines started getting milder. About two weeks ago I picked up my monthly quota of Imitrex (I'm only allowed 9 pills a month) and I haven't opened it yet. WooHoo!!

    I never had migraines until well into the ME/CFS illness. I find it a very interesting coincidence that Co Q10 is pretty standard with most of the ME Docs and that it seems to be working well for the migraines.
  12. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    hello aileen

    my topamax only works optimally when I don't eat gluten, chemical additives, salicylates and recently found out anything based on sulphur.
  13. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Lulu,

    I've been on morphine for 12 years now and oxycodone for 10 years before that for chronic pain. The glutathione is NOT part of the protocol and is to be totally avoided along with NAC and whey. It can cause the worse folate and b12 deficiencies possible leading to subacute combined degneration in 6 weeks.

    You need to get things working and the active b12/folate protocol could do that. Folate lack and b12 lack each and both can cause lesions from mouth to anus and everytwhere in between. If your base condition is paradoxical folatge deficiency all of your symptoms might be accounted for.

    DISCLAIMER

    I am a self taught systems analyst and consultant. I am not credentialed, certified or licensed to do anything besides drive a car. I have been disabled by the disease processes being discussed and affecting neurology in a multitude of ways for 10 years and impaired in a variety of ways and levels for 54 years before that. Everything I say is my opinion, synthesis, understanding or otherwise of my own creation except direct attributed quotes. Approximate paraphrases are also my interpretation of what I have read. All of this is at best my data analysis, understanding, synthesis and hypotheses and not to be construed as medical advice. I am not responsible for anything you do with any information provided in any way. Anything you do is your own responsibility and at your own risk. There are no published peer reviewed studies backing up my opinions or statements, except the incidental ones quoted or implicit in my synthesis or understanding, and then only in so far any reading of such papers may confer. Your interpretations, actions and variations of what I say are strictly at your own risk.
  14. Lulu

    Lulu

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    Hello Freddd:

    How kind of you to respond - thank you!

    So frustrating that the only CFS doctor I've ever been able to see had only one recommendation for me -- Glutathione injections! (Her paperwork recommended supplementing with NAC and Whey.)

    I haven't read about paradoxical folate deficiency but will do so now...

    I wish I had had access to this kind of info the first 10-15 years of illness - I've gotten so bad now that I don't understand much anymore and have no resources left.

    Bless you for helping.
  15. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Lulu,

    I also had no success in 20 years of trying. As a selfpay I spent an average of $10,000 a year (in the dollers of those years) trying out every theory and idea any and all practitioners had. Not a single one helped except my chiropractor, and that was just pushing my spine back into alignment 3 days a week. The casue was unrelieved. When there is a mystery that nobody knows the answer to, 1 theory is as good as another. And they all have results like 1 in 10,000 or so actually improve a lot. Maybe they hit the mark on that one person or something corrected.

    Of course if the cause is a multiple deadlocked nutrient deficiency set no theories that don't directly address that have a prayer of working. It is very common to feel better some days and worse others. Each and every practitioner wanted to claim credit for the daily up fluctuations and ignored the down fluctuations the next hour or day. I kept a daily pain and treatment diary for years. I did manage to solve the problem of the chronic daily headaches and 14 day interval "suicide" (what my doc called them) headaches. They were all muscle tension headaches from my neck. I learned how to abort the terrible ones and the whole cycle wound down. It took 6 years of data, graphed, for me to see the partterns and find the 3 times in 6 years I had aborted the killer headaches in the first hours. It worked every time and they wound down over about 2 years.

    I found all sorts of theories that had no results but the practioners were making a good living selling hope to desparate people for money they could ill afford. It destroyed my entire retirement fund.

    After spending years of nothing working I started looking for what did work occasionally and debugged that. Nine years later I am healed of FMS, ME and CFS and have had a relapse of subacute combined degenertion as described in a recent post and that is now substantially on the mend. The relapse reaffirms the cause.

    So, a person has to take their chances if they want to get well. They have to take responsibility for themselves and judge for themselves what might work and undertake a complicated protocol that has to be responsive to their individual reactions and make active corrections as soon as they can sense what is happening. The one theory with merit and pointing the way is that many of the symptoms are due to a partial methylation block. I took that several steps further and maintain that the methylation theoriy only accounts for one branch of symptoms. The Deadlock Quartet theory (the newest incarnation of it I've come up with so far) takes it a few steps further and goes after the symptoms at basically all the points of blockade.

    The good news is that almost everybody with these symprtoms will have the startup responses that appear to be healing turning on. From there it gets complicated as the person has to follow the clues with the correct interpretation, the one that lkeads towards more healing, which is not pleasant to begin with. You see besides the Deadlock Quartet there are another tier of supplements that MIGHT be critical either alone or in a multitude of combinations and then another tier yet of the rest of the vitamins and minerals and supplements that might be critical for certain people. I had to do endless trials at each level. The good news is that results are fast if you find the deadlocking items on each level. A further complication is that substances that are beneficial or useless to some might be detrimental to others. So extra items may cause a problem. Who would have guessed that glutathione could be such a disaster. I didn't which is why it nailed me. I was going on certain popular theories when I tried it. I found out how spectacularly wrong a popular theory can be. However, without the glutathione trial I wouldn't have recognized paradoxical folate deficiency and the symptoms.
  16. MishMash

    MishMash *****

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    Lulu,
    There was a book published twenty years ago called "The Yeast Connection". It's all about fighting the negative effects of Candida overgrowth in the gut, and everywhere else in the body.

    The main recommendations of the book were 1) avoid sugar and high glycemic carbs, and 2) take an anti-fungal called Nystatin several times a day. Nystatin is a prescription drug, but apparently it is quite harmless and very effective in killing off fungus/yeast in your gut. I've spoken with people who have had success with this protocol. Just a suggestion.

    Good luck.
  17. Lulu

    Lulu

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    They have to take responsibility for themselves and judge for themselves what might work and undertake a complicated protocol that has to be responsive to their individual reactions and make active corrections as soon as they can sense what is happening.

    Hi Freddd:

    Apologies for the late reply...I appreciate your post so much - I have to confess, though, when I first read it I didn't understand a word of what you wrote - I've reread it a few times and still only understand bits and pieces - my brain is a disaster.

    When I said that I have no resources left I was strictly referring to my brain - when I could still function cognitively I spent my savings, retirement and inheritance on so-called experts, yet none of it brought me any closer to getting better. I don't even hope for the right doctor anymore -- the real experts are fellow PWC's such as you - generous enough to share your experience and brilliant knowledge with the rest of us.

    Unfortunately by now, I'm unable to comprehend something as simple as a grocery list. I recently had to fill out some very basic paperwork to be reimbursed by insurance and although it was obviously simple, I made such a mess of it and after spending several stressful weeks on something that should have taken 1/2 hour at most, I ended up missing the deadline.

    Even though I've lost just about everything and everyone, as long as I have access to the Internet and great sites such as this, I'll have hope!

    Thanks again - best to you.
    Lulu

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