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Methylation cycle and Vitamins ???

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by ramkishore, Jul 2, 2014.

  1. ramkishore

    ramkishore

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    Hi

    I want to know which vitamins (especially B vitamins) are used at different parts of methylation cycle. I hope there are four cycles which together form methylation cycle as per Amy Yasko.

    i just want to know which forms of B vitamins are used readily by body during methylation.

    Regards
     
  2. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Hi,
    to make a long story short the main B vitamins involved in the methylation cycle are B12, B9 and B6, as exemplified by this diagram:

    [​IMG]

    For a more in depth discussion you can check Dr. Ben Lynch's presentation on YouTube:

     
  3. ramkishore

    ramkishore

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    wow...great diagram. The simplicity side of complexity.
    thanks for that diagram.

    which forms of B6 and B9 should I take?

    I know its p5p for b6. but why should i not take direct form of B6? If methylation is wrong, is B6 in direct form not usable? Same question with B9?

    Warm Regards
    Kishore
     
  4. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Normally the best forms are the active forms:
    B9 -> Methylfolate (e.g. Metafolin or Quatrefolic)
    B12 -> MethylCobalamin
    B6 -> P5P is the active form. You can also use regular B6 and let your body activate it. It may not work for everyone though. Some docs use both forms.
     
    ramkishore likes this.
  5. ramkishore

    ramkishore

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    @PeterPositive
    Lastly NAD and NADH confusion. which one should I use?
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2014
  6. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Making the most of it

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    Australia
    Hi @PeterPositive, @caledonia and other knowledgeable folk on PR.

    I have just found out I have very high levels of B6.

    713 (range is 35 to 110)

    My supplementation is relatively low (I think!) at 33mg. Was 8mg until a year ago.

    I am at a loss to understand why these levels are so high. I don't believe it is related to foods I am eating. I am wondering if I have high levels because I am not using it in the methylation process according to Peter Positive's diagram above. Can B6 accumulate in the blood?

    I have MTHFR C677T +/+ and MTRR K350A +/+ ;
    CBSA360A +/-, BHMT-02 +/- and BHMT-08 +/-;
    ACAT1-02 +/-, AHCY-01 +/- and AHCY-19 +/-

    My homocysteine level is 9.6

    My B12 is 393 (138 to 652). MCV is 97 (80 to 96)

    I am a skinny type 2 diabetic controlled with taking metformin which impacts on B12 levels.

    I have had progressive peripheral neuropathy since about 2007. Right hand and foot only. I was supplementing B6 for some years (maybe 2004 to 2009) for PMT and have continued supplementing B6 via multivitamins alone since about 2009. I understand that B6 toxicity can cause peripheral neuropathy and fatigue.

    I am sensitive to meds and only require small doses.

    I would greatly appreciate any assistance in trying to understand what is going on here.

    Update: I have been taking B6 as pyridoxine hydrochloride. The test measured pyridoxal-5-phosphate which it states is the active co-enzyme and is adequate for assessment of B6 status.

    Best wishes Andy
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2014 at 6:53 AM
    Valentijn likes this.
  7. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    @AndyPandy I found this series of forum posts that might be helpful, especially the quote from Yasko. For CBS she does suggest keeping B6 low (I think like less than 20mg?). Hopefully, you can just stop supplementation for awhile and things will improve. Then if you decide to restart, keep it very low.

    http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Nutrition/B6-Toxicity/show/2642
     
    AndyPandy likes this.
  8. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Hello @AndyPandy
    33mg of B6 is a moderately high dose. If you have been taking it for many months it could be the cause of your high serum B6, plus maybe your diet is already rich in B6?

    Your homocysteine level is pretty good ( < 10 ) especially considering you are MHTFR C677T++ (like me). Mine is still around 12-13. Quite stubborn, unfortunately.

    Your B12 instead could be better than that. Since you also have neuropathy issues I think it would help to cut the B6 to 5-10mg max, and support your B12 possibly with both active forms: methyl-B12 and adenosyl-B12.

    How much B12 and folate are you taking with your multivitamin? Which forms?

    cheers
     
    AndyPandy likes this.
  9. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Making the most of it

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    Australia
    Thank you @PeterPositive and @caledonia.

    My folate is 41.1 (9.2 to 39.3).

    Supplements have included B12 Cyano 25ug and 25mg; Folic acid 150ug and 300mcg. I eat veggies, meat, fruit, nuts, coconut yogurt, almond milk and GF cereals. No dairy, gluten, soy, eggs and certain other foods and food additives due to IBS, FODMAPS, sulphur issues, food allergies, intolerances and genetic predisposition to celiac. Very few processed foods and no fortified breads, cereals etc that I am aware of.

    I am about to try methylation. My doctor suggests hydroxy B12 and methylfolate. No mention of adenosyl.

    I have read Caledonia and Yasko on choice of B12 and think hydroxy is right for me. Will discuss adenosyl with my doctor.

    I have been researching prior to the B6 result and had realised that some of the components in the supplements like Cyano and Folic acid might not be helpful. I was considering stopping the supplements and the B6 result has given me that push.

    I am also:

    COMT V158M +/- and COMT H62H +/-
    VDR Taq +/- and VDR Bsm +/-
    MAO-A R297R +/+
    SOD2 A16V +/-

    3 lots of NAT2 +/- and 7 lots of CYP +/-

    A long history of reactions to meds and need for small doses.

    Thanks for the reference to Yasko @caledonia. I will have a look.

    Best wishes Andy
     
  10. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Making the most of it

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    Australia
    Interesting that she also mentions chronic bacterial infection and problems with B6 supplementation. I have chlamydia pneumoniae. Will be treating this after (hopefully) getting methylation going.
     

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