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Methylation.... anyone experience anger or agitation?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by place, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. boo85

    boo85 Senior Member

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    Thank you so much Freddd and Victronix.

    I will look at the supermarket for "no salt". I think I found a brand here: http://finefoodwholesalers.com.au/listing/BathoxAustraliaSalt How should I take it and how much per day? Can I stir some in water and drink it?

    The only way I found out about B12 was when I was searching and searching on the Internet vitamins to take for repetetive stress injury (from the tingling and pain in my hand and arms). It was only after seeing one comment on a page that I decided to try b12. I got some cyano sublinguals and even though I now know it wasn't the best form, within 3 days the tingling in my arms went away. Since then I don't really have to many physical symptoms (the tingling in my arms went away, and my gait improved and the fog lifted), but then these mental symptoms have surprised me. Is the tingling in the arms the last symptom to turn up? Is it the end stage of b12 deficiency?

    I think that b12 does affect dopemine levels because yesterday I felt so much fear all day. Not just anxiety, but paranoia. But today, after eating a lot of potassium and taking b12 each day, and magnesium, I've felt a lot better. It's amazing but also scary how much one vitamin can affect someone's mood so much. But I'm glad that I'm on the right track.

    Freddd - how long does it take for start up symptoms to go away?
     
    susieq777 likes this.
  2. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Boo,

    There are multiple levels of healing each of which start separately. As many as a dozen or more different nutrients may cause different aspects of things to start. So there is a neurological brightening which is a genuine side effect of perception changing as the nerves themselves are affected. There are induced deficiencies which can cause different problems to be solved like low potassium, and again, more than a dozen other possibilities. Getting things into balance. Most of these changes are clues that can lead to taking care of problems. Other changing things are the actual healing taking place and symptoms decrease and go away over time. Mostly our bodies notice change. When things stop changing and nutrients are in balance changing symptoms go away. Neurological brightening caused by the Deadlock Quartet fade at a given dose and increase with larger doses typically. Now I only have a neurological brightening after a period of setback. On the other hand, because I have periodic episodes of paradoxical folate deficiency that top layer of folate healing starts and stops again and again, letting me be responsive to it.
     
  3. boo85

    boo85 Senior Member

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    Thank you Freddd. Does stopping and starting b12 stop healing in any way? Or does it just delay it?

    I think I am going to stick to only 250 mcg b12 per day and stay with that for a while. And take care of the potassium problem, and then if I need to go higher, I will.

    by the way do you have a link to your story and journey somewhere?
     
  4. mominmo

    mominmo

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    I'm so thankful to have found this thread. I have been so depressed and angry since taking 1500 mcg of adB12. It's honestly scared me. I'm going to stop everything and will titrate tiny amounts of mb12. So glad it isn't just me!
     
    susieq777 and Victronix like this.
  5. boo85

    boo85 Senior Member

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    mominmo, I found it helped to start with 250mcg of b12 per day, and eat a lot of potassium each day (coconut juice, baked potato for lunch, tomato juice, 2 bananas per day etc) and that helped a lot with the anxiety. As far as I'm aware the b12 "wakes up" parts of the brain that weren't there before and it's not used to having that much b12, so that causes the strong emotions. Fresh fish oil (in a bottle, not pills) helped too. Then you can gradually try a bit more b12 each day as you get used to the amount.
     
    Adlyfrost likes this.
  6. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    I would like to address this set of reactions. I believe first that there is another thread with a lot more experiences of this response of anger, anxiety etc. This appears to be mainly caused by the CNS deficiencies of AdoCbl and L-carnitine which cause the neurological mitochondria to activate. This appears to be something that happens over a long period and this long term deficiency causes damage. Then after it is damaged it is very irritable when the nutrients are taken. This also causes some strange side effects benzos, some neuroleptics and some other meds that affect dopamine even as a side effect (benzos). The bad news is that if the damage continues to increase in the limbic system (MY HYPOTHESIS) Parkinson's might be the outcome. ON the other hand I have seen people make their way through this by getting the neurological healing going with MeCbl and AdoCbl and methylfolate, leaving the carnitine for last and then starting at 100mcg (1/10 of 1 mg) titration with carnitine. It is possible to take the carnitine below the extreme level of effects. Those who have been able to do so appear to be able to reverse the process to some degree and come to a "normal" relationship with carnitine so they can build that up to the levels needed to support body mitochondria.

    In observing those who have substantially healed and no longer have the extreme reaction, every one of them did titrate through and did endure some months of limbic unpleasantness, keeping it low enough to tolerate but with the neurons activated. They don't appear to heal if they are not activated.

    The other side of the coin is the neurological deficiency of MeCbl/methylfolate predominating and that appears to lead to Sub Acute Combined Degeneration or MS. It isn't great for anybody. A distinguishing response appears to be whether these nutrients feel really good, even euphoric, or the anxiety, anger, rage end of things. I know it doesn't seem fair that healing or improving one kind feels good and the other is near intolerable, but we are talking about serious things here. To borrow from an ex politician, "It is a terrible thing to lose one's brain". This is a very high stakes game. We are talking about life, sanity and functionality. I know I am walking on the razor blade of life and balance is difficult with slips at any time.. Don't let the screwed up medical research system tell you to ignore it because it is "only" FMS/CFS and "nobody dies from it". By the time they do die of it is diagnosed as something else. I had severe FMS/CFS. The docs don't even consider the SACD to be related. They do not consider congestive heart failure to be connected. So I would never have died of FMS/CFS, just some of the other "co-morbidities" of common cause.
     
  7. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    I have experienced very short bouts of anger whilst taking a bit extra methylfolate (total 900 mcg in all) plus extra MB12, 1250 mg lozenge and 0.1ml MB12 injection together with 15 mg P5P, 350 carnitine fumerate, and also a supplement that helps the mitochondria. However it would seem with me that these bouts come along when I need to eat something so its connected to poor blood sugar control for me.

    The rest of the time I feel normal although if I stop the extra folate and MB12 and restart I can feel a bit hyper on the first day.

    Luckily for the most part I would say my moods are very stable but I think this is due to my taking adrenal/thyroid meds plus a small amount of bio-identical estrogen daily (I am post menopausal), If any of my hormonal treatment is altered then everything would fall apart for me, it plays a huge part in how well I can feel.

    Pam
     
  8. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi m,

    The pattern I describing is very specific and the anxiety - anger - rage - depression cycle often lasts about 36 hours and is quite predictable. Falling blood sugar and things like that can cause similar malfunctions as can hormone variations. all very complicated. Have you tried the Chromium GTF supplement? Also vitamin E can affect blood sugar as can a number of other supplements. When you stop MeCbl and folate, it only takes a few days for the symptoms to start returning. Then one feels a startup all over again. The "normal" feeling feels "hyper" when approached from underneath. Keeping hormones and blood sugar stable can make a whole lot of difference in how we feel. I'm on hormone replacement therapy also. If you haven't started AdoCbl I would suggest discontinuing the carnitine for a few days before starting AdoCbl. AdoCbl is not as easily titrated as l-carnitine. Good health to you.
     
  9. boo85

    boo85 Senior Member

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    Freddd, is it a good thing that I went through a period of anger? It seems to have settled now. I hope it doesn't come back. Is that an indication that I'm on the path to healing?
     
  10. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Boo,

    The 36 hours that it lasted was from a single dose of 1mg or less of LCF in hypersensitive persons that I was speaking of. Without having any idea of exactly what your experience was I have no way of knowing. Those who have gotten through this effect typically have 2-6 months of the increased anxiety before a increased dose of LCF has no such effect. If the anxiety reaction was from MeCbl and you didn't repeat the dose, the MeCbl wears off in 2-3 days before symptoms return. Wirth AdoCbl if the anxiety happened at the first dose it may fade and not come back as much with the next dose of MeCbl or AdoCbl but then may come surging back with LCF. If you have it as a single occurrence I doubt that it is over, or if it is, then it isn't what I am talking about. Neurological changes takes months or more typically. Good luck.
     

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