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Methylation and inflammation

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by place, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. place

    place Be Strong!

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    Hey everyone,
    During my meth journey I have encountered many issues and have been able to solve them with everyones assistance. Very thankful for people much smarter than I.

    I have discovered that with use of methylation that will get inflammation. I thought it was histamine but I don't think it is as the IC that flare up. I looked up IC and they say it is inflammation.

    I have tried cystine and potassium... nothing.

    My questions.... If histamine is converted in the meth process, what else could be causing the inflammation?
    The inflammation increase as my energy output increases.

    Thanks!
  2. dmac

    dmac

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    you said,
    "I have discovered that with use of methylation that will get inflammation. I thought it was histamine but I don't think it is as the IC that flare up. I looked up IC and they say it is inflammation."

    you thought it was the histamine causing the inflammation?
    what is IC?

    do you think the increased inflammation could be the detox from the release of toxins due to the methylation?

    you said
    "My questions.... If histamine is converted in the meth process, what else could be causing the inflammation?
    The inflammation increase as my energy output increases. "

    if the histamine is converted to what?
    do you mean if the histamine is lowered through methyl it would not cause the inflammation?

    So the more energy you get the worse the inflammation?

    trying to understand this better

    thanks

    denise
  3. place

    place Be Strong!

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    Denise,
    Yes, So this week I have tried to keep the inflamtion/ or what ever it is up by running or being active. Normally if I chilled and took advil, it would be gone in 2-3 days. If histamine is converted or used in the methyl cycle than it may be something else.

    "do you think the increased inflammation could be the detox from the release of toxins due to the methylation?"
    Could be, what should I test to varify?


    I have been trying to keep it going to test things out. The following has not done anything for my interstitial cystitis:
    -Allergy meds such as bendryl/singulaur
    -more Potassium
    -cystine

    Next to try is Anti-inflamitiories: currently trying this afternoon is Lodine

    Fortunately, I have a small pharmacy in my house =(

  4. dmac

    dmac

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    I am new to this. I have been trying to heal gut and doing mercury chelation so new at methylation.

    So let me see if I understand.

    If one has LOW methyl and HIGH histamine,
    when on the methyl treatment,
    we try to raise the methyl, which would lower or convert or use , as you say, the histamine so it would be less likely to be causing the inflammation, unless..

    you are eating high histamine foods like spinach, tomatoes, avocado, etc,
    what about the sun (due to high histamines I am allergic to the sun and can cause inflammation reactions )

    eating or having supplements that have gluten in them? i am not sure.

    do you have mercury problems? use dmsa?
    had/have fillings, your mom have fillings? vaccines?

    if you do and also have sulfur problems b/c of the mercury, taking the cysteine b/c it is sulfur and can re distribute and mobilize the mercury and you can feel worse.
    maybe high sulfur foods and supplements?

    raising the methyl can release toxins, pathogens and metals/mercury and that could be causing inflammation reactions.

    like your moots says, we have to keep going. I know my detox is hell but i have to go through it to get to the other side. maybe go slower, reduce what you are doing?

    what are you doing? what treatments?

    what sx are you having that feel like inflammation?

    i am really battling foods with histamines and sulfur as well.
    maybe try an elimination diet from sulfur and histamine foods and see if that helps.

    there are list of high sulfur foods and high histamine on line

    the high sulfur list is from living new zealand. something . i will get and bring back here for you

    denise
  5. dmac

    dmac

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  6. dmac

    dmac

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    sorry, one thing that might help if you have issues with sulfur foods/mercury is molybdenum .

    i am big on mercury b/c I think it is so often over looked and if not removed properly with dr cutter protocol many suffer while they are doing other treatments and think it is the treatment making them sicker but it can be the re distribution of mercury, if this applies to your history

    thanks
    denise
  7. place

    place Be Strong!

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    dma, thank you for the suggestions. I will have to make a list to tackle.

    Well, last night I took Lodine, after a few hours nothing. Then I took copper and probotics...... it went away! Must repeat testing again.
  8. place

    place Be Strong!

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    Ok, would it be weird if it was copper that fixed it? Went running, got my IC, tried the copper and its gone. Really? What does everyone know about copper?
  9. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    To avoid having the Justice System using your own posts against you, you may want to write "methylation" instead of "meth" if you know what I mean! :)

    Anyway, methylation increases adenosine which results in mast cell degranulation. If your issue is mast cell related, then increasing methylation may not be what you are looking for.

    By the way, Interstitial Cystitis is one of the symptoms of Mast Cell Activation Syndrome.
  10. place

    place Be Strong!

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    ha-ha, Nanoun, as I was reading it, I thought the same thing! Lord, someones going to surprise me with an "Intervention!" Very prevalent in rural Ohio.

    I have no idea why the copper would solve this issue. I honestly took it per chance. I had some skin itching a while back and someone recommended copper. I took it but was not sure it solved the issue. However; with the IC, it has worked twice within an hour of taking it. Moreover, I get the IC when I have been exerting heavy energy.

    How has your treatment been going? Very interested in Mast cell theory. It fits me well as a dx.
  11. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Here's one possibility:Inhibition of mast cell histamine release by copper.

    I am far from cured and, right now, with the pollen count elevated where I live, it's been tough. But I am definitely better that I was just a few months ago. In any case, I am still under-medicated. I am hopping to see a mast cell specialist in September to be finally formally diagnosed.

    My suggestion would be to contact The Mastocytosis Society and ask to be referred to a specialist in your neck of the woods. The lady below was the one that told me about the specialist in Virginia:

    Valerie M. Slee, RN, BSN, Chair
    Board of Directors
    Liaison, Medical Advisory Board
    Patient Referral Coordinator
    The Mastocytosis Society, Inc.
    23 Camelot Dr
    Shrewsbury, MA 01545
    Phone: 508-842-3080
    Fax: 508-842-2051
    Email: vmslee@aol.com
    www.tmsforacure.org

    Good luck!
  12. JPV

    JPV Senior Member

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    From: http://www.betterhealthguy.com/methylation

  13. Prema

    Prema

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    I am in the same boat: methylation-protocol raised so much Inflammation though I was taking really low dosage. So what can I do against increased adenosine or against mast cell problems now? Or what dosage of vitamine D to use (isn't that working too slowly?)
    And what would a "short period" be with increased inflammtion, when the IS first wakes up? I had Inflammation before, because I have lyme. But I don't get rid of the feeling, that the kind of inflammation I am having now , is not only a reaction to lyme-bacteria. I even got kind of asthma now which I never had before, and there would not be lyme-bacteria or other pathogenes in the lungs I guess...(? ) and also temperature-changes...
  14. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    Have you ever looked into the reason that Vitamin D reduces inflammation? I have read that it reduces inflammation because it suppresses the Th1 branch of the immune system. Wouldn't that allow pathogens to multiply?

    If you happen to have had a shift in the immune system towards the Th2 branch, you would be susceptible to pathogens. In order to bring the pathogen under control you would want to relieve the stress to the Th2 branch and try to activate the Th1 branch. There are ways to support the body in it's fight against the pathogen and there are specific remedies for accomplishing that. You can find that type of info by searching for Th1 Th2 immune system shift.

    I think besides a pathogen, metals play a part. That needs to be addressed, too.

    Both pathogens and metals are known methylation blocks.


    I have something in my lungs, too. I'm wondering if it's Lyme or maybe mycoplasma.

    Have you heard of teasel for Lyme?
  15. Prema

    Prema

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    Hi Violeta, thanks for Your input, I will do research about Th1/Th2 shift. The Vitamine D-issue is confusing. I know that there are contradictory opinions about D-vitamine and lyme. Some say the bacteria kind of feed on the vitamine (?) I am not sure what this really is about. My D showed very, very low in the test a year ago, so I am taking it. Maybe I should really stop doing so. It seems crucial in my condition to get the shift from Th2 to Th1. Can that have something to do with intestine as well? I have not been aware in the past that I had a problem with histamine in connection with Nutrition and the last stool-test was negative for histamine.

    Teasel showed no reaction at all in me . Catsclaw, andrographis with japanese knotwood moved more as herbal antibiotics concerning lyme-bacteria. But there too, my problem was that it activated the cytokines so much that I was afraid I am shifting into an autoimmune-problem that gets out of control. And now with the methylation-protocol the reaction is even worse.

    Mycoplasma also is an issue with me. I thought about chlamydia that could be in the lungs. But isn't that rather a systemic reaction of the immune-systeme? Do You think there always have to be pathogens wherever You get cytokine-symptoms?
  16. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    @Prema, here is one explanation of the Th1 Th2 shift, mostly explaining the condition of being shifted to Th2 dominance, which is typically what a chronic bacteria or pathogen problem consists of.

    http://digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C104673.html

    In this type of case it is Vitamin A that is recommended for the immune system. Low Vitamin D can be a result of liver and kidney not processing it correctly to the usable form, and until the liver is cleared out taking more just congests the liver more.

    If the cat's claw and knotwood caused too much cytokine activity, it's because of them dealing with the pathogen. The reason for the mast cell degranulation is the endotoxins from the bacteria. There are several ways to deal with that to make herxheimer reaction easier to take. Cat's claw is very strong, pau d'arco tea is much more mild but still helps; it's antibacterial, antifungal, and antiviral. Starting with that instead of cat's claw causes a lot less herxheimer reaction.

    First one I found is based on the fact the in order for the mast cells to degranulate they must have a calcium ion. If you do something to block the calcium, such as taking magnesium, quercetin, or luteolin, the mast cells will still do what they are meant to do but will not degranulate.

    Another thing is to take aspirin dissolved with sodium bicarbonate. This produces sodium salicylate, and it inhibits mast cell degranulation.

    I almost forgot about activated charcoal. That helps, too.

    I found this about sarsaparilla, but I haven't tried it yet.

    The herb sarsaparilla helps to clear the blood of endotoxin, if anyone needs relief from side effects of die off.
    Medicinal Plants. 2nd ed. Rocklin, CA; Prima Publishing: 1995:7.)
    Increasing evidence indicates that sarsaparilla acts as an endotoxin binder (this binding action helps to purify the blood of toxins). As bacteria break down, they release endotoxins that normally are cleansed from the gut by the lymphatic system and the liver. If the endotoxins are excessive and cannot be eliminated, the body experiences a toxic overload. This toxic overload triggers an inflammatory reaction as the body moves into a fight pattern, causing a flare-up of symptoms of arthritic pain, skin inflammation, and irritability. Sarsaparilla’s binding of endotoxins in the intestines before they get into the bloodstream prevents inflammation. (Taylor L. The Healing Power of Rainforest Herbs. Garden City Park, NY: Square One Publishers; 2005

    I really helps to decongest the liver. If a pathogen along with the metal issues that cause it and that it makes worse are cleared up, methylation should no longer be a problem. I am hoping, at least.
  17. Prema

    Prema

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    I hoped by doing the methylation-protocol I would detox heavy metals, and then I could start with antibacterial remedies. But it seems I have problems with this order. Detoxing with chelation I did for some time, (but thought I got stuck because of the toxic stuff being in in the cells together with the pathogens).Again that was why I wanted to do the methylation... Also the Timing for D is confusing. In Yaskos protocol I should take it...

    I am confused now with the Aspirin. I read it would prevent the enzym to break down the mast cells. Does it only depend on the sodium bicarbonate? Only Ibuprofen would be alright I read.

    Also Quercetin is the only thing that seemed to help so far a little. Are You sure it prevents mast cells to degranulate? Calcium I can try, I took only magnesium in these weeks and months.
    Sarsaparilla I also wanted to order, because it's the anti-inflammatory in Klinghardt's "quintessence"-remedy for lyme.
    Best wishes :) Prema
  18. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    I haven't read anything about ibuprofen, except that it's bad for the liver. Aspirin dissolved with baking soda is the only thing that I have actually seen studies showing it inhibits mast cell degranulation. Aspirin NOT dissolved in baking soda causes mast cell degranulation.

    Yes, quercetin prevents mast cell degranulation. But I can't say that it does it perfectly throughout the whole body. It prevents it by blocking calcium entry into the cell. So we don't want to take calcium supplements. Magnesium is a calcium channel blocker, and that would be good to take.

    I want to order sarsaparilla, too.

    Have you tried chlorella to mop up the metals that are released when the bacteria is broken down?
  19. danny0

    danny0

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    When I started methyl b12, methylfolate, TMG, P5P I had throbbing in my forehead and eyes. Every morning I woke up without the throbbing but sure enough 45 minutes after swallowing the pills it would startup again. I'm guessing this was inflammation. I lowered my doses, introduced curcumin and cut out vegetables and all foods contains fold acid. I noticed after 5 days I was able to tolerate twice the amount of methyl folate and methyl b12. I no longer have headaches and have started to feel better.

    I also am homozygous for MTHFS, BHMT 02 and 08, MTHFD1 C105T. I always felt bad when I would start on veg protein shakes in the morning, I thought it was my body detoxing. But I don't believe that to be the case after reading about MTHFS mutations and unable to convert veg folate to methyl folate.

    What I forgot to mention was my issues usually start when my body is under stress. The most recent issue started after my throat and nasal passage swelled up, had a panic attack and went to the ER. I was eating egg salad when it happened. But I've never been allergic to egg. My sister is an ND and she had all sorts of markers and blood work checked. Homocysteine was extremely high at 22. She assumed I had methylation issues and to get 23andme done to see where the problem could be. That was done and as mentioned I'm getting better. But from what I understood I was not methylating and histamine was building up, I think. All the veg I was eating(thinking this helping) was causing more issues.
  20. acrosstheveil

    acrosstheveil Senior Member

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    Im dealing with the same issues myself. Out of control inflammation and insane food intolerances. I thought i was overmethylating at first but felt worse when i took niacin so i dont think that is the case. I also have lyme so that complicates things. The neural inflammation is so bad i get severe tinnitus And migraines sometimes . Potassium does not seem to help like everyone recommended in my other thread.

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