Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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Methylation and Fungal issues

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Tiger Lily 813, Mar 6, 2014.

  1. Tiger Lily 813

    Tiger Lily 813 Senior Member

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    Hi all,

    I started a low dose methylation regimen with B12 & Methylfolate (not like Freddd’s, more just low, even doses of b12/methylfolate), and a few weeks later I wound up with a lot of, seemingly systemic, fungal issues.

    This may be a coincidence, and I did just go to my Dr. to have a full work up to see where my vitamin/mineral levels are, but is this a common pothole on the path of methylation?

    I’m suspecting the methylfolate is maybe instigating it, but I really don’t want to stop taking it…

    Please let me know if you’ve encountered similar issues, and if so how you may have gotten a handle on it.
    Thanks so much for your thoughts : )
     
  2. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I had an increase in toenail fungus and itchy skin fungus on the same foot. Now that I've added potassium this is starting to clear. I also had other potassium deficiency related issues - the fungus stuff was just a side issue. So if that sounds like you, it's worth a try to add some potassium.

    Forgot to add, Now potassium gluconate powder has been working well for many people (including me) for potassium deficiency on methylation startup.
     
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  3. Tiger Lily 813

    Tiger Lily 813 Senior Member

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    Thank you Caledonia; that's interesting. I haven't read much about fungal problems as a side effect of methylation. My fungal problems are kind of digestive and skin related. I have been reading a ton about the potassium balance, but I am taking very low dose methylfolate (200-400mcg/daily) and b12 (1000mcg) so I wasn't sure if I needed it yet.

    It's hard for me to tell if people are using the potassium to slow methylation, or because an actual deficiency has taken place. I did ask my doctor to look at my potassium levels in my workup on Monday so that I can get an idea where I stand. I'm just cautious because I know excessive potassium is not good either, especially considering my depleted adrenal state.
     
  4. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    @Tiger Lily 813: my understanding is that as mitochondria begins producing ATP again and cells start waking up, this becomes a potassium problem because essentially cells start soaking up available potassium. This can tank your potassium levels by increasing the overall demand for the mineral. Essentially, because a lot of cells start waking up and using it, suddenly there isn't enough to go around. Think about a restaurant that typically serves 100 people per night. They plan for this, because it's the norm. That restaurant is our underfunctioning bodies, with the typical food plan being the normal amount of potassium we use. But what happens if 300 people suddenly show up at the restaurant demanding food, or even if those 100 regulars suddenly demand double portions (i.e., more cells start needing more potassium)?

    The restaurant (our body) runs out of food (potassium).

    I have been formally diagnosed with adrenal fatigue by my Dr., and the increased potassium needed for methylation protocol hasn't had any bad effects on me at all. Quite the opposite...it helped. In adrenal problems it's not necessarily that we take in too much potassium, it's that we don't use it properly and thus develop an imbalance between sodium and potassium. "Salt loading" helps us correct this imbalance. I don't understand it all completely, but now I do see that correcting the balance by limiting potassium intake and increasing sodium intake is just a "bandaid" that helps cover the dysfunction of the physiologic processes that drive our endocrine systems to work properly.

    I'm currently not salt loading any more, although I don't limit salt, either, because it's a valuable mineral, as well. I just salt food to taste and all seems well.

    Interestingly, salted water used to taste like heaven to me. I've been drinking it for several years. Now I'm kind of "meh" about it. ;)
     
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  5. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @whodathunkit Your explanations are really great. I'm so glad you're able to digest this stuff and make it palatable for others.:angel:
     
  6. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    @ahmo: thanks for your kind words! I luvs me my analogies. And now, thanks to all this talk of restaurants and food and things being palatable, I'm hungry. :p
     
  7. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope Senior Member

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    The reason why people with adrenal fatigue have problems with potassium is because we have low levels of aldosterone. Aldosterone is needed for the balance of potassium and sodium, with low aldosterone your body can't push out too much potassium correctly and doesn't retain sodium.

    Also, sodium is needed for digestion so if you are low on sodium you won't digest properly. That's why people who are low on sodium have digestion problems.
    When I take a lot of sea salt my digestion improves.

    When you are on a methylation protocol and have adrenal fatigue. You should be more cautious with potassium loading because too much potassium can cause problems. You have to find a balance between not enough and too much.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
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  8. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    @girlfromeurope: thanks for adding a missing piece of the puzzle for me. Aldosterone. I think I've heard that, come to think of it, but obviously I don't know exactly where it fits. Is it possible for you elucidate a bit on what drives the low aldosterone?

    FWIW, I still salt my food heavily. It makes my mother gag when we eat together. :D

    I love salt.

    But since the salted water doesn't taste as good as it used to, I'm taking that as a sign I don't need to I don't seem to need the salted water any more, and maybe my adrenals and other endocrine functions are improving. This would be a good thing.
     
  9. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope Senior Member

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    When you have adrenal fatigue , your adrenals will produce less hormones. One of these hormones is aldosterone.
    This article explains it more : http://thedetoxdiva.com/adrenal-fatigue-salt-cravings/

    This has nothing to do with methylation though, but when you're in need of more potassium you should be extra cautious with too much potassium because of the low aldosterone. :)
     
  10. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Your dosing is not very low, it's in the "normal" range. I'm taking 16mcg of B12 and even less methylfolate - that's very low. I still need potassium.

    Taking potassium does not slow methylation. An actual deficiency has occurred, due to cell rebuilding processes sparked by restarting methylation. This appears to be unique to ME/CFS patients who are often extremely physically debilitated. I don't hear this as much of a concern among other types of patients doing methylation, such as autism or mental health patients. Interestingly, this situation is similar to pregnancy, where there is a lot of cell and blood building going on to make the new fetus - pregnant women require extra potassium and can become deficient.

    ME/CFS patients can already be extremely low in potassium due to weak adrenals. The adrenals help regulate electrolytes. So if your adrenals are weak, you will be leaking out potassium, magnesium and sodium like crazy. This is why you may crave salt, and salty foods taste so good.

    So you start with low potassium already, then you add demands for cell and blood rebuilding, which puts extra demands on potassium - and voila - potassium deficiency, which requires direct potassium supplementation. Eating foods high in potassium doesn't work - believe me I have tried it.

    Also, you can't do a standard blood test to check for low potassium. My doc says it's just a "snapshot" of what you ate the previous day. It doesn't tell you what's going on inside the cells. My potassium actually showed up very high normal on my Nutreval test, yet I had many symptoms of potassium deficiency, and am doing well on potassium supplementation.
     
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  11. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    Hey GFE, thanks for the link!

    FWIW, I think when methylation and ATP production get revved up, the entire endocrine system can begin to function normally again. Or at least, it can try. That's what feels like is happening to me.

    I'm really beginning to comprehend the truth behind the old saying "All disease is a problem of energy" (or whatever words are used, that's the gist of it).

    Of course the degree of recovery and/or the time it takes to recover probably depends upon the degree of dysfunction/pathology present within the individual in the first place. Ultimately I may not make it as far as I think or hope I will at this moment today. But this sure is better than where I was two months ago, so I'll take it. :D
     

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