The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Methylation and dysbiosis

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by trickthefox, Aug 9, 2015.

  1. trickthefox

    trickthefox Senior Member

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    Hi guys!

    I want to trial a methylation protocol since over the years I've had CFS it's something I haven't done yet, and i've heard people have gotten help from it. I'm already having great help with Naltrexone and certain probiotics, but would love to take it a step further! I have access to a lot of the literature on methylation and the supplements I'd need to take etc. except the trouble is for me personally, I have a lot of issues with gut imbalance, many supplements make me much worse, and I wandered with people with similar issues - how did you approach methylation? Are there specific supplements that are better to get started on? and specific dosages?

    I seem to have a big problem with sulfur (probably an overgrowth of sulfur reducing bacteria) and I know some of the B vitamins are sulfur based

    Thanks!

    Ren
     
  2. GoodVibesOnly

    GoodVibesOnly

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    Look into seeking health supplements - he makes them specifically for people with methylation issues.

    I notice you are UK based so can get them here:

    http://www.functionalnutritionsupplements.co.uk
     
  3. Merccrusader

    Merccrusader

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    Hi Ren,
    Just wondering whether you've looked into heavy metal posioning as a possible avenue? It would be handy to do a Hair Elements Test for disrupted mineral transportation, just to see whether you have a metal problem. I would advise you to become a member of the FDC board or Frequent Dose Chelation board at Yahoo!. They can assist you with getting the Hair Elements Test Ren. I doubt that you have any metal fillings, but possible exposure from Mercury may have come from childhood vaccines. This is just a possible avenue to look into. I'll leave up the link to the FDC group.

    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/frequent-dose-chelation/conversations/messages

    Sign up and get the Hair Elements test, just to check that you haven't got some form of metal problem going on. Often people with M.E./CFS probs have metal issues, but of course there can be other underlying reasons.

    Cheers
     
  4. Merccrusader

    Merccrusader

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    Last edited: Aug 10, 2015
  5. Unim

    Unim

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    Hey, sorry to derail this further on the mercury tangent... In your other thread you mentioned feeling like you are wearing a headband. Reading Alfred Stock's description of mercury poisoning, he mentioned head pressure which reminded me. I have seen this mentioned occasionally from people on the chelation group too, one person's doctor referred to it as a "mercury halo". Along with the sulphur intolerance it made me think of heavy metal symptoms.

    I can't comment much on methylation. The only real benefit I saw from adding higher doses of sublingual B12 and methylfolate was less side effects when I tried a round of ALA chelation. I never managed to follow the full protocols though, due to gut sensitivity.



    Back to mercury, if your budget is tight, a hair test isn't entirely necessary. Regardless of the result, to be sure you will want to do a trial round of ALA every 3 hours for at least 64 hours. However, DO NOT DO THIS IF YOU CURRENTLY HAVE AMALGAM FILLINGS. You will need to be on some basic supplements for this as well.

    The minimum support supplements are thus:
    Vitamin C 1-2g doses 3-4 times per day
    Vitamin E 400-1000 IU once per day
    Magnesium 100-200mg 3-4 times per day
    Zinc 50-100mg split into 3-4 doses per day

    I priced these up at the high end of the recommended doses recently, and it came to about £38 per month. If you have lots of intolerances (Like me) the price goes up steeply; if you can use powdered forms it might come down a bit.

    The cost of ALA depends on dosage. Doses below 100mg tend to be more expensive, brands available in the UK can be about £40-£50 per month, Living Network Supplements in South Africa appears to be much cheaper though at £8.61 with £3.49 untracked shipping (Assuming their prices are in USD - This seems surprisingly cheap, but if accurate I've wasted quite a bit of money buying Kirkman brand instead?!). I have seen 12.5mg recommended as a starting dose, moving up or down for subsequent rounds based symptoms or lack thereof.

    DMSA and DMPS are optional, but more expensive.



    Chelation is a serious commitment and can take months to a couple of years to see real benefits, and of course there are no guarantees of absolute recovery. A hair test can be useful to stay motivated, but there is a chance it could be negative despite an obvious response to chelation.

    I have been at chelation for 61 rounds now spaced over 18 months. The only solid gain I have made is a large sore rash on my outer shins spontaneously healed; this rash had been with me for about 7 years, about the same time my functionality began to decline into moderate CFS. Gut, mood and hormone symptoms have been up and down, but no improvements have stuck as of yet.



    If you decide to try this, I would run it by the folks at the Yahoo group to be sure I haven't missed anything. Also if you want the names of the websites I priced the supps from I can share them.
     
  6. trickthefox

    trickthefox Senior Member

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    A lot of the chelation supplements are sulfur based, as is ALA, so I wouldnt really want to go down this route unless I was 100% certain heavy metals was my issue, does KDM test for metals?
     
  7. Merccrusader

    Merccrusader

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    I have gut issues myself, and use ALA for chelation.There's many members on the FDC board who have gut and sulphur issues, who chelate with ALA, and don't have any real dramatic issues with the chelator in question. A low sulphur diet helps dramatically. Unfortunately, if you want to get better you have to weather the storm with ALA. I have chronic candida, leaky gut and numerous allergies to boot. If you've had any jabs from a vaccine(s) over the last number of years you will have exposed yourself to Mercury. I cannot say whether KDM have a test for metals, because I used the FDC route with the Hair Elements Test. I still feel it's wise to invest in the Hair Elements Test. That way, you will be able to know for sure. If you post it up on the FDC board, members who are experienced in interpretation of your hair test results will tell you like Brian Mc, Linda and Joe Grane. The problem is, you will be going around in circles continuely Ren trying to treat your symptoms and not addressing the underlying cause. I'm 40, and had 10 amalgams in my mouth, which caused my health downfall in my mid-30's. My first amalgam went in at the tender age of 12 yrs at school. The NHS use to send a dental clinic to the school's back in the late 1980's. Just like you, I have spent thousands, and also attended Breakspear Hospital. You find yourself going around in circles, trying to find the answer and the protocol which will deliver the recovery to health. Money and time is wasted as you well know. Seeing that your only in your 20's, it would be sensible and wise to invest in the hair elements test. That way, you can move foward and sort this health issue out once and for all, and get your health back, so you can live your life again. But it's up to you as an individual to choose what is right for you. All I can do is suggest an option.

    Good Luck!
     
  8. trickthefox

    trickthefox Senior Member

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    Hi merc crusader, I do appriciate this information, and will certainly invest in a hair test, I'm just quite certain I havn't been exposed to a significant ammount of metals to be a problem, never had fillings, the vaccines i have recieved were live vaccines therefore had no mercury - this being said I will do the test as it was reccomended to me by an alternative doctor i've been seeing already, but because the only intervention thus far that seems to have made a dramatic difference to my health is antibiotics, so im wandering more weather in my individual case I am more likely sufering from an infection like lymes disease or simmilar because surely a heavy metals problem wouldnt respond to antibiotics like this
     
  9. Unim

    Unim

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    A hair test is a good strategy to hedge your bets, ideally the Doctor's Data Hair Elements one so you can compare it to Cutler's counting rules. Thinking about it, if you stuck to the minimum dosages and pure powder forms it would probably a fair bit cheaper than the prices I posted earlier.

    One thing you could try to test whether it is dysbiosis or thiol intolerance is to try supplementing with TMG or choline. If you were able to tolerate more meat when taking these, it could be due to the extra methyl groups sparing your body from metabolising the methionine, which would suggest a thiol intolerance.
     
  10. Merccrusader

    Merccrusader

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    I totally agree with Unim. Hopefully the Hair Elements will give you an idea. It's best to cover all the bases me thinks. What live vaccines did you have Ren?. Have you had the MMR vaccine or Flu shot? in the past.
     
  11. trickthefox

    trickthefox Senior Member

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    Yep the MMR vaccine was probably the thing that was the last straw into me getting CFS
     
  12. Merccrusader

    Merccrusader

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    It doesn't surprise me one bit to be honest Ren. Did your mum have amalgams when she gave birth to you? The reason I say this, is because I suspect that people like myself have become sensitive to this neuro-toxic poison probably from birth. I had Dyslexia from birth, and it makes me wonder whether mercury caused developmental changes to my brain as I developed in my mother's womb. Mercury can cause neuro-logical changes to a child in the womb, and also create the changes needed to cause the sensitivity to Mercury down the road. The moment you have a vaccine(s) or amalgams you then become ill, leading to many of the current conditions we see today that either get listed as the classic syndrome - X that doctors cannot treat. The pharma company Merc develops the MMR vaccine. And it does contain mercury as an active ingrediant. I'm not surprised that you reacted to it at all. There's other active agents in the vaccine like alumminum etc... When you said about being unable to tolerate sulphur foods, that made me think of mercury straight off the bat. Now that you have confirmed that you did have the MMR vaccine I am pretty certain you have a metal prob. It will be intriguing to see what that hair test will confirm under the Cutler counting rules.
     
  13. trickthefox

    trickthefox Senior Member

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    From the research I did MMR jab in the UK does not contain thiomersal, nor has it ever, and it would be highly illegal for the NHS to claim this if it wasnt true, but my mum did have mercury fillings, and still does, so it is a very real possiblity!
     
  14. Merccrusader

    Merccrusader

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    And do you truly believe a Governmental body like the National Health Service? Just remember that the NHS also states that amalgam fillings are perfectly safe, and don't cause any health problems. It depends on where you get your research from, and who you believe. I use to believe what my dentist told me..."mercury bonded with tin and silver won't cause any amalgam to leach from my fillings, you'll be perfectly safe" he said. No dentist/doctor in a white coat will truly speak the truth, and money talks, and it's a perfect revenue model as a business. Just like the vaccination industry. There's lies and damned lies. Even lies that sound like the truth Ren. I've been to see my local GP about my condition, and of course, you get denial that I have amalgam illness. No doctor will ever admit or treat such a condition because of the threat of being sued. The NHS and the Government are fully responsible for administering both vaccines and dental amalgam to the general public over decades without telling the willing public the truth. But no Government speaks the truth, and like the fork tongue of the serpent, it speaks lies that are made to be truthful. Either way, I would stay away from the NHS as much as possible. I certainly don't trust the MMR jab. The active ingredients are enough to make me warrant suspicion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
  15. trickthefox

    trickthefox Senior Member

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    nono its not so much the word of the NHS which i'm deffinitely not the biggest fan of, more that thermiosal in a live virus vaccine such as the MMR would render it innefective so they never have used it as an ingredient, that information's in the public domain and I do trust it because it has sound scientific logic and given the contreversy surrounding the MMR there must have been countless tests for mercury in the vaccines, if they did contain mercury something would have come up to prove it by now. I think the main problem with a vaccine like the MMR, is that the immune system is not supposed to be subjected to three viruses all at once, there is no doubt it throws people off or that it is linked to autism... we shouldnt be putting 'efficiency' over peoples health. Saying that though it doesnt rule out my problem being mercury so i'm still going to get tested
     

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