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methyl trap symptoms?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by dead.money, Feb 12, 2015.

  1. dead.money

    dead.money

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    I'm getting headaches, upset stomach, irritability, anxiety, weak muscles/cramps, sweating and overheating.

    I took l methylfolate alone at 7mg for 2 weeks before reducing slowly to 500mcg a day now. Even that is messing with me. Just realized that not taking methyl b12 can cause a methyl trap. I wasn't taking it until a few days ago and I was only probably taking 100mcgs. It's the only reason I can come up with as to tonight why I could have responded so well to the folate for a while and then abruptly stopped tolerating it. Any input on if these symptoms sound right? Has something similar happened to someone?
     
  2. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    I had started too quickly and had taken too much mfolate compared to mb12. I was in a Rage. I mean I wanted to kill someone. I took a bunch of niacin then the next day lowered everything. I started with 1 mg MB12, 2 mgs ADB12 and 400 mcg metafolin. I am also taking a low dose LCF.

    Very slowly I am upping my MB12 and hold that for a few days then raise my metafolin by 200 or 400 mcgs. I know from @ahmo you need more MB12 then mfolate.

    Lesson learned is start low and go up slow.

    Look around for my old thread on this from about 2 weeks ago.
     
    dannybex likes this.
  3. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @dead.money There are 3 docs you might want to check in my signature. The Guide to Freddd's Protocol is a long pdf, where you can find Fred's comments on a methyl trapping. There's also a wonderfully simplified version. And Methylation for Dummies.
     
  4. dead.money

    dead.money

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    Thanks guys. I'm actually starting back up on 1mg mb12 and 500mcg methylfolate today. The thing that's making it complicated is that my psychiatrist thinks in slightly bipolar which could be causing some of the rage and mood swings. I can't tolerate any mood stabilizers though. Choline seems to help a little.
     
  5. GoodVibesOnly

    GoodVibesOnly

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    @dead.money @ahmo @minkeygirl Just being reading up on Freddds protocol and methyl-trapping and came up with the following thoughts as applied to my own past blood test results. I have historically had very high levels of B12 (i.e. way outside normal ranges) when previously having supplemented with Jarrow's B12 (Methyl) and B12 self injections (Cyano). At the time I thought nothing of it, however now it occurs to me that whilst I had high serum B12 levels, I was not actually using it due to a lack of correct co factors/ MethylFolate.

    A recent Urinary Organic Acids profile also indicated normal-ish values for Methylmalonic acid despite no supplementation or medication of any sort for nearly a year (at a time I was having heart palpitations and dizziness).

    So my question is this : Could it be that Methyl trapping results from an imbalance between Methyl B12 and MethylFolate as well as the body's other needs for MB12? For example in my case where I am hoping to start supplementation/ Methylation soon, I could initially have adequate levels of B12 which could then quickly become depleted with the addition of methylfolate. So initially I would feel great until Methlyfolate uses up my MB12 stores which in turn would increase Glutathione levels, which in turn themselves would also my body's demands on MB12 thus creating a MB12 deficiency and eventual Methyl trapping?

    For example taking 1x 5mg MB12 Lozenge a day would likely yield at the very most 200 mcg MB12 a day whilst taking 800 mcg Methylolate might be absorbed at 200+ mcg a day which in itself would lead to an imbalance without taking into account my body's other needs for MB12.

    I am asking because it occurred to me that in order to get adequate supplementation/ Methylation going that MB12 / ADB12 supplementation may need to be a well established corner stone first. My plan was to maybe begin maybe by supplementing initially with MB12 and ADB12 for a few weeks via Lozenges and injections. In doing so, this would hopefully give me a head start to crank up Methylation later on as well as providing my body with huge doses of B12 for fighting other body infection/ pathogens etc?

    Apologies if my post sounds a little naive or confusing, I am pretty much learning as I go along and this is one of the things that has occurred to me as of late. It just occurs to me that many members here have stated Methylation with various degrees of success. From all these accounts one thing stands out i.e. that there is a honeymoon period of about 1-2 months when methylation starts up and is good but then results in a crash. It's just not clear if that is due to an imbalance in the methylation supplements or if the body had been over-stimulated for other reasons, in either case it would seem to make sense that B12 supplementation initially might help with a number of blocks. For example Dy Myhill in the UK advocates daily doses of B12 initially. Her rationale is that she is not entirely sure how it works but that in the case of some people it may just be useful in decreasing bodily infections and pathogens?

    Any thoughts grateful received on this subject.

    GVO
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
  6. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    The ratio of MB12 to folate is always so hard to figure out, and I suppose different with each person, depending on so many other factors and causes for their ME/CFS. But interesting you should mention 'more MB12 than mfolate'.

    Yeeeeeaaars ago, I went through a year of hell where I couldn't settle down -- extra 'wired but tired' -- and was trying everything under the sun, but mostly aminos, herbs, probiotics, some vitamins, minerals, (especially calcium and magnesium for muscle twitching). Nothing seemed to help at all.

    That is until my doc at the time prescribed methylb12 injections and nebulized glutathione in December of 2002.

    Within 3-4 days, I felt like I had my life back. I wasn't taking any folate that I can remember (although I did use a sublingual b12/folic acid(!) from time to time -- just mainly methylb12 shots. I also didn't know about the possibility of potassium deficiency from the mb12, but did fine.

    After about six months of shots, I started to get increasing wired again, but that was stopped almost overnight (again), but this time with thiamine injections. They worked so well I thought I could quit the klonopin cold turkey. Everything was so calmed down. Then I ran out of money, my stress levels increased dramatically, and forgot what had helped (thanks, brain fog), until about 2 years ago when I found the receipts.

    Anyway, to make a long story short, thanks for the reminder Minkeygirl and ahmo. I've been on edge again (big time) and think it's in part due to too much folate, and not enough b12.

    (and also histamine intolerance, elevated copper, gastroparesis, etc., etc.) :nervous:
     
  7. xks201

    xks201 Senior Member

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    are you guys really having serious success with this methylation stuff lol
     
  8. cobain_justinsane

    cobain_justinsane

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    I don't know for sure, but I suspect that I have experienced methyltrap several times.

    Why?

    Because I am already quite low in B12 and have several heterozygous MTRR mutations (which supposedly causes poor recycling of B12 the therefore low B12 levels).

    Read my past experiences with B12 and Mfolate.

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...transmitters-overmethylation-any-ideas.33209/

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-overmethylation-any-ideas.33209/#post-513185

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-overmethylation-any-ideas.33209/#post-513185

    My main symptoms are depression, anxiety, feeling wired.

    I'm going to have to try MethylB12 on its own first, get the dosage up then try Mfolate.

    The biggest problem is I'm terrified to try supplements in fear they'll send me over the edge.

    Anybody else have any input on the methyltrap and your experiences??
     

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