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Methyl-B's and TMG = Histamine Reaction? Help.

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by dishwashsoap, Jun 14, 2013.

  1. dishwashsoap

    dishwashsoap

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    Could someone please help me understand what's happening to me. Methyl B's + TMG, I think, has made me near insane for the past two days. Can't get it to stop. Please help.

    A few days ago I tried taking methyl B-12 5,000 sublingual (I've used this a few times in the past with no issues and it definitely helps my cognition a bit and I suspect I am deficient even though tests show moderately high) and then took a new B-complex with 100% RDA methyl-folate in it. I experienced a bit of copper dumping. (According to my hair analysis, I have a biounavaible / copper toxicity problem.) Later I took some TMG, which is something my hair analysis advisor wants me taking. After the TMG I experienced the worst histamine related issues I've ever had in life. (I normally don't have any histamine issues.) Running rose, my ears became clogged, sneezing, skin crawling, migraines, heart racing, intense anxiety and stimulation, felt so wide I awake my eyes were popping out, and nasty insomnia.

    Here is what I don't understand: Previously, before adding in any B's, I had been able take TMG with no real noticeable effects, except maybe a moderate reduction in anxiety.

    The next day I experimented again. This time I took 1,000mcg methyl B-12 and 800mcg Methyl-folate (in a non-subli combo pill.) I again experienced what felt like copper dumps, just kind of out of it all day. Later, when I took the TMG , I had a repeat of the last night's issues, only this time it was much worse. The histamine (and maybe glutamate?) stimulation issues became so intense I thought I had gone insane. I tried taking some of my cal/mag but that I think made it worse! I wandered the streets for hours trying to cool off. (I am already in an intense blank-mind state from what I assume are the copper toxicity issues, but this just felt like that + cocaine.) And when I finally got to sleep, the next day I woke up and the issues were still there, though not as bad. I no longer have a histamine reaction as bad, now it's just the mental stimulation and anxiety (glutamate?). After some research I decided to try taking 100mg of niacin, to see if maybe slowing down methylation would help. I got a good flush, I finally almost felt normal for a few hours. Though now it feels like the niacin effects are wearing off and I'm coming back to the over-stimulation and anxiety again. (Again, glutamate?) My head feels like it's going to explode. Jeez.

    I've had a long standing issue of brain fog and fatigue. I wonder if the copper toxicity (and it's relative zinc deficiency) could have been in a factor here. The copper toxicity was diagnosed through hair analysis and through serum copper and ceruloplasmin (both a little low, but within range, but using the free copper formula, we saw my free copper was very elevated.)

    I have made an appointment with a doctor who tests for histadelia / histapenia to see if I have under or over methylation issues, which now seems pretty obvious. But could anyone please help me understand what happened and how I can get it to stop? Right now I'm thinking definitely leaving the folate alone…and obviously the TMG, too. Considering taking some subligual B12 (without the folate) to see if that helps, like maybe this was an issue of methyl-folate trapping? But I'm so scared it's going to make things worse…Any ideas anyone, please?
     
  2. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Some people need lower doses than what you're taking. Especially at the beginning of methylation. Some people might need much lower doses.
     
  3. dishwashsoap

    dishwashsoap

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    I probably did take too much folate on the second day. Still, I'm just trying to understand why TMG releases all that histamine. That has to be indicative of something, right? All I've taken today is the niacin and the second round didn't work. I have this tremendous pressure in my head, now 24 hours later, and I can't get it to stop.
     
  4. boo85

    boo85 Senior Member

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    even 1000mcg of b12 is a lot. You might need break it into quarters and only have 250mcg per day or every second day. Or even start lower with 50 mcg.
     
  5. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    TMG is a methyl donor so when you take it you're increasing methylation. So it's more likely that TMG is indirectly causing the high histamine by increasing methylation.

    There was another thread in this forum about high histamine. There might be more information there.
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ce-since-starting-methylation-protocol.23281/

    On a side note, I think I might be having a similar problem recently since I've increased my dose. I didn't experience anxiety like I have in the past, but I did get a few headaches and I rarely ever get headaches.
     
  6. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Generally, it's more likely that the methylfolate is increasing methylation more than the methylcobalamin. That's not to say that methylcobalamin won't increase methylation. For some people methylcobalamin increases methylation considerably which is why Rich recommends starting with hydroxocobalamin. You tend to be very sensitive to B12 though. I hope you don't have the same reaction to folate as you do to the B12, but methylfolate is more likely to cause problems.
     
  7. GenDylan

    GenDylan

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    TMG and l-methionine raised my histamine too!! I have no idea why? I thought aiding methylation lowered histamine.

    It's funny that I saw this thread after I made my own on a similar experience..
     
  8. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Did you see that thread I linked to in post #5 of this thread?
     
  9. GenDylan

    GenDylan

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    Thank you very much Lotus97 .

    That thread was concerned with folate deficiency being the cause,or a possible CBS mutation.
    I had my folate checked on a blood test a few months ago and it was fine.
    This is just crazy to me,because all websites say that l-methionine and TMG lower Histamine. I'm learning that methylation is waaaay more complicated than that tho.
     
  10. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    My point was just that there were people in the thread saying that methylation caused a high histamine response. I can't comment on whether or not the theories offered in that thread are accurate and/or if they apply to everyone or even most people who experience the histamine response to methylation. Sometimes people offer theories in these forums and they don't always pan out or at least they're not applicable to everyone.
     
  11. GenDylan

    GenDylan

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    Very good point!
     

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