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Metaphysics - NDE, etc Its GROUNDHOG DAY all over again

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by Freddd, Oct 20, 2009.

  1. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    I mentioned some NDEs I had on another thread and some people wanted to hear about them. I find others experiences interesting along these lines too. So I suppose that some of us mystics will come out of the closet here. As you will find out when I have time to write some things up that there is more than a hardcore systems analyst lurking here. I don't have time to do it now as I have a dinner guest showing up in 2 hours and a lot of prep to do. Anybody who wants is welcome to kick things off.
     
  2. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    Woo hoo. And woo woo! Let's talk about our mystical experiences. Somehow our suffering is tied up in it, in ways I don't understand.

    NDE's--I want to hear. We had a little bit of discussion once on another thread about intuitive and precognitive experiences.

    I really want to hear more and what you think yours meant and how we can develop this part of our lives more.

    For instance--he's gone now but for about 2 weeks I had some kind of grasshopper who attached himself to the screen of my bedroom window. He just fixed himself there. He was in the same place for days then he moved to another place--. Then I saw him slowly moving himself. I don't know if he was injured but he certainly wasn't hopping!

    I felt he meant something to me and my life but who knows what. I don't exactly feel in the mood to meditate about it.

    One time I was sitting on the front stoop of a house in Santa Fe where I was staying. The front yard was overgrown. A grasshopper landed on my shirt, round about my stomach. I slowly reached over, pulled a big blade of grass, and fed him. Holding the grass sideways to his mouth, he took a chomp, then I moved it, he took another chomp. When I was done feeding him I played simon says. I moved my head to the right and so did he, to the left and so did he. We did this form of communication for a while and then I got bored and he hopped off on his way.

    What did that mean? Just that bugs have much more intelligence than we give them credit for. Maybe I was in a peaceful state so he jumped on me. He knew I was feeding him and he let me, though I'm sure no other creature ever fed him. And he understood I was trying to communicate through my game, and he showed me by doing what I did.
     
  3. shrewsbury

    shrewsbury member

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    'ah glasshopper' - maybe it's a symbol of being a student? of the spiritual side of life?

    I had a very similar experience with a preying mantis (I think it was) in Mexico. It actually came back to visit and play for the next few days. And once swam with a pod of giant turtles in sri lanka. There are other experiences, but this is all can do today. they brought a sense of connectedness to me.

    fred good to know you're the rounded, renaissance type, man, not just the hardcore analyst (NOT to be left mispelt as analist!). do you cook too?
     
  4. klutzo

    klutzo Senior Member

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    Token animals

    jenbooks,
    I think it was me who started all that stuff about intuition on that other thread when I mentioned having gained some abilities since I've been ill. I can tell when people lie, for example, and often can read the truth in their minds. I can sometimes see illnesses now. I have precognitive dreams and have had two series of reincarnational dreams.

    I have a friend with CFS/Lyme who does not come to this board, but I wish she would. Her home computer broke down and she can't afford to fix it. She actually sees dead people and gets messages from them and from animals.

    I have another friend who does not have CFS, FMS or Lyme who makes part of her living as a psychic. She is very good. She says we all have a token animal that is special to us and gives us signs. Maybe the grasshopper is yours. When you mentioned that I thought immediately of David Carradine and Kung Fu. Remember that show, or are you too young? By her comment, I think Islandfinn picked up on that right away.

    I am too pooped to write more now, but look forward to following this thread. I've been having a lot of dark nights of the soul lately, and could sure use some NDE stories to help restore my faith.

    klutzo
     
  5. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Islandfinn,

    Yes, actually I do cook, pretty decently too, better than I often spell. The menu tonight was fresh cucumber, carrots and cellary pieces with corn on the cob, steamed potato, steak seasoned with garlic and rosemary, partially carmalized onions and baked tomatos with fresh sweet basil and organo with mozarella and parmesan cheeses. Tonight it was just ordinary sirloin but I've been practicing up on Chateaubriand lately and can do it to perfection.
     
  6. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    As a way of introduction I have been a tantric alchemist all my life. I woke up with the knowledge one day at about the age of 2. My mother about freaked out when I was in 3rd grade asking her how to find a kabbalah group. She got really upset when I left my teddy bears and my sisters dolls in yab-yum sadhana and the like. I started practicing erotic trance at puberty and it affected my entire dating and social life. A book avalable on the internet called [FONT=arial,helvetica]Indecent Practices and Erotic Trance: [/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica]Making Sense of Tantra [/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica][SIZE=+1]by John Ryan Haule [/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]Copyright 1999 [/SIZE][/FONT]
    [SIZE=-1][FONT=arial,helvetica]All Rights Reserved [/FONT][/SIZE]

    http://www.jrhaule.net/ipet.html


    a Jungian therapist, will pretty much make a start at describing what I engage in and provides a convienient vocabulary. This provides a context for some of the experiences I might bring up. It is an interesting book I highly recommend though I do not endorse all of his conclusions. I'm not entirely conventional in my interpretation of, practice of and teaching of tantric alchemy, but then I have never studied it in this life and make no claims to be classically anything. In general metaphysical outlook I'm nondualist jnana and know the works of Vivekananda like the back of my hand though again my interpretation may be unconventional.

    Whether some of the experiences I have are classic, baroque, punk, acid rock or heavy metal NDEs who knows. Perhaps you can tell me.

    It's too late to write anything up tonight so the introduction will have to do.
     
  7. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    I'll start in with one of my death experiences. There was nothing "near" about it.

    I was skiing at Alta in mid January, 1974. There had been about 3 feet of warm snow the day before and SUNSPOT, a beautiful west facing bowl at 10,000 feet with a 25 degree pitch, had all the bumps smoothed out and flat as a billiard table. Due to a warm drizzle at the end of the storm the surface had a crust with an ice glaze after being packed smooth. About noon the snow softened from the sun and a dozen of us headed over to Sunspot. We sat around in the rocks catching a few rays while it softened up a little more and the glaze melted. Sunspot is big and wide at the top and funnels down the fallline to where it is a 50 foot wide passage through a rock garden on an exposed face to which the snow doesn't stick well. There were still 2 foot rocks sticking up so one had to pick their way along the edges to get through that section. There were 10 foot rocks on one edge and stunted trees and rocks along the other edge.

    The traverse also didn't have any fresh snow sticking to it so it was a series of icy transverse bumps. I started down. On my very first turn off the traverse my skis pivoted and scissored and a binding released and I went down. I immediately started picking up speed. I tried to stand up on the other foot and blew out of that binding too. I kept picking up speed. I had been on the ski patrol and knew how people died on the slopes. I was headed straight for the rocks. I tried to slow down by getting my pole tip through the crust. It made no effect until the pole was ripped from my hands, gloves and all. I tried my other pole. It too was ripped from my hands. I remember noticing how icy calm I was while heading for the rocks at a high speed. In the days of safety straps my skis were battering by head and face whenever my head was uphill. I flipped onto my back and decided to jam my heels through the crust figuring broken legs were better than a broken head. The first two times I whacked the crust with my heels they bounced off. The third time they went through. I had my legs flexed to absorb the shock. Instead of digging in and slowing me down my whole body pivoted up and I did several full layout flips without ever touching the ground. I ended up on the ground head down on my back with the last chance being the rope with banners strung across the top of the rock garden, hoping the poles had a solid planting. They didn't. I hooked the rope with my arms and elbows not trusting my hands to grap it. The poles came right out of the snow with no resistance. I looked up at the pearly white sky wondering why it wasn't blue as everything went black.

    I was feeling nothing at all but I was conscious. I could see nothing. Then I became aware of two presences. The first one asked me "was this a veiled suicide attempt". I was surprised because that was about the last thing I expected in this situation. I answered "No, not that I know of". The second presence then said "Then you wouldn't mind going back into the same life". I said "Not at all. I was having a great day skiing until this happened". One of then chuckled or snorted or something a little and said "Where should we put him down?" The other said "How about here?"

    I found myself flying along about 6 inches above the snow at about 40 mph a couple of hundred yards and a right angle turn away from anywhere my body could have slid to following Newtonian physics. I came in for a gentle landing and slid to a stop. The other dozen people all skied up bringing my hat, sunglasses, gloves and poles as I stood up wondering how I could possibly still be alive. Not one person was looking when I would have hit the rocks. Everybody without exception was looking somewhere else.

    The next week I bought Burt Pro retractable bindings.

    With that and a number of other such experiences it appears to be GROUNDHOG DAY or a very long Bardo dream.

    Peter Ouspensky (A New View of the Universe) and E.J. Gold (Life In The Labrynth, The Original American Book of the Dead, The Human Biological Machine as a Transformational Apparatus and many others) speak of recurrance over and over in variations of the same life; a sort of reincarnation in place without changing bodies).

    I know this probably isn't a "classic" NDE, but it is a classic recurrance experience. Every time I tell this story people pop up with similar experiences. My wife had one such experience with me. My daughters had one together, my friends, my M-I-L etc all have had such.
     
  8. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    Very interesting Freddd. What do you mean "a classic recurrence experience"? You had a similar experience many times?
     
  9. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    And now for something completely different...

    A young woman was brought to me by a friend who thought I might be able to help her. This was after she was diagnosed with CFS with a strong IAIYH component and so everything else was ignored. She was finally diagnosed with stage 4 lymphoma. She went through chemo, lost every hair on her body, got rid of the cancer and ended up in the hospital with a pneumonia and died.

    She had a reasonably classic experience being sent back with the "you have work to do, go back and live your life" experience. When she opened her eyes from that her husband said "You didn't die so now we are getting divorced". This is more common than you might think, coming back from an NDE and having your whole life changed in a minute.

    She didn't want to live. Her therapists were unable to hear her or help her. At this point she was introduced to me. This was during a period when I was doing a little better so I could drive and cook and things like that. I started spending evenings at her house and had her stay over with my family during Thanksgiving and Christmas. I feared suicide atempts if left alone. Her family was Mormon and didn't approve of her life style with her former husband and she was feeling very rejected.

    She was very opened up with the NDE and hadn't closed off again. I was able to go into erotic trance with her easily with a back rub or even across the room after a little practice. When in trance with her I experienced everything with her. She started peeling back all the layers of trauma starting with her recent husband. At various points we came across separated parts that could then be aged forward in a series of steps until they joined up with her "now". We finally reached a series of rapes by a neighbor boy at 3 years old that her therapists insisted on saying were imaginary because they didn't get the description told as a nearly blind 3 year old would tell it. Insisting they were imaginary never let her clear them. I experienced them with her and know the truth of it. After she brought the 3 year old parts up to current and reattached them the next session she suddenly went back to a previous life and was in a concentration camp, as a 10 year girl who never wanted to live again because of the trauma there. After working through that and reattaching her to all her life she let go of the insisting she had to die. I introduced her to a group of people who became her friends where she met the man she married a few years later and she was done with me six months after the regression to the concentration camp. That was our last alchemical session. I don't know how to describe what I did with her but changing ones self and releasing trauma and so forth is a very important part of alchemical work. I helped her synthesize a new world she could live in or maybe choose a rebirth in a world she could live in or however you might want to put it. Past life trauma is fairly common.

    Being a tantric alchemist isn't all fun and games at all. It's quite serious going places very few are able to go to or work in.
     
  10. kolowesi

    kolowesi Senior Member

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    Freddd recurrence, NDE, thrilling story

    Hi, Fred,

    You are indeed a multi-dimensional human:)

    Thank you for the great skiing story. Very well told. I have a bit of adrenaline after reading it, which I will now use to go to the grocery store.

    It's been many years, but I read Ouspensky's The Strange Life of Ivan Osokin (something like that). I actually don't remember it :D, but I've always had the question whether recurrence experiences are at moments when one has the opportunity to make a conscious choice that makes a change in one's destiny, for lack of a better word.

    BTW, my bf and I visited Sri Padaparai at Kanyakumari. I think it was early 1972, or late 1971. Though I was unprepared and uneducated, I still remember almost every footstep. That's saying a lot, as I remember relatively little of my life.

    "There are two rocks emerging out of the ocean, located southeast of the Kumari Amman temple. One among these is Sri Padaparai, where the footprints of the virgin goddess are believed to be imprinted on this rock. It is said that Swami Vivekananda sat in deep meditation here and therefore the Vivekananda Rock Memorial was built in 1970. Along with this there also a dhyana mandapam, which provides a tranquil atmosphere to meditate."

    from
    http://www.indiasite.com/tamilnadu/kanyakumari/kanyakumaritemple.html

    I look forward to becoming more educated on all the subjects you have mentioned!


    Kelly
     
  11. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Jenbooks,

    Every experience is different but has similarities. I have had many such experiences. The only real difference I can see is that I remember.

    In mid May of 1974 My wife and I decided we were going to stay in SLC and got a larger apartment with a 3 year lease. Our furniture was still in storage in Cleveland. We came west with a small U-Haul trailer with a minimum of stuff.

    The ski season had ended a couple of weeks before. It was a Saturday morning and we were exercising in the living room (no furniture) with CLOSE TO THE EDGE (YES) playing. Sombody knocked on the door. I went over to open it and my wife was right behind me. There were two men I had never seen before outside the door. From between the two men, one of them raised an automatic pistol and shot me in the head without a word. I assume they shot my wife next. She doesn't remember that.

    The next thing we both remember is waking up on the floor with CLOSE TO THE EDGE started over and the first words out of her mouth were "Don't open the door". She saw me get shot and remembers it clearly. She doesn't remember what happened to her but that isn't unusual.
    GROUNDHOG DAY yet again.

    There was no interlude on that one. I found out years later that some drug dealers had moved out of that apartment just before we moved in.
     
  12. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    Fascinating, Freddd. I could listen to stories all day. Tell as many as you like or can.
     
  13. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Kelly,

    Ah yes, I too have read THE STRANGE LIFE OF IVAN OSOKIN.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_Life_of_Ivan_Osokin
    The Strange Life of Ivan Osokin is a novel by P. D. Ouspensky. It follows the unsuccessful struggle of Ivan Osokin to correct his mistakes when given a chance to relive his past. The novel serves as a narrative platform for Nietzsche's theory of eternal recurrence[citation needed]. The conclusion fully anticipates the Fourth Way Philosophy which typified Ouspensky's later works[citation needed]. In particular the final chapter's description of the shocking realization of the mechanical nature of existence, its consequences, and the possibility/responsibility of working in an esoteric school.

    It was Ouspensky's only novel. He talks about recurrance a little in A NEW MODEL OF THE UNIVERSE.

    SLAUGHTERHOUSE FIVE has the protagonist bouncing around in his life at all different periods.

    A central theme of recurrance is that one can die at any time during the life and be reborn into it at any other time, the only limits being birth and physical death at the end of the potential life. When one is reborn a "new" you is formed based on current parameters. So if a person has released a trauma and no longer has an automatic unconscious reaction of a certain type, after a death/rebirth experience the person is reborn changed, as if that trauma had never been there instead of having the trauma and all the workaround code (I'm a programmer/analyst even in my alchemy, excuse the metaphors). It is simplified.

    So, when Osokin goes back and relives his life nothing changes because he hasn't changed. He is trying to do it by memorizing his way through. That is a failed strategy. You recognize events only after they happen, it's deja vu all over again. So the wizard says this time you have to be prepared. The only way for his life to change is for him to change. This is the heart of alchemy; changing one's life by changing one's self.

    In GROUNDHOG DAY Phil the weatherman learns that lesson. Instead of doing what his ego wants, to get laid by every pretty woman in town or whatever, with memorizing his way through to get what he wants "No fudge". Instead he changes the one thing he can carry back with him, his self. Every day he gets one piano lesson, always his first. But since he learns, it is at a higher and higher level each time.

    I had an amazing visitation experience (I don't know what else to call it) with Vivekanada and Ramakrishna once. That will be forthcoming.
     
  14. klutzo

    klutzo Senior Member

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    Fanmail from some flounder?

    Hi Fred,
    LOVED the Rocky and Bullwinkle reference in your second story.

    All of this is very interesting. I would guess those two presences in the first story were your spirit guides. Two of mine have talked to me, but only 3 times in my life, and it was their choosing. All attempts at contact on my part have failed.

    Regarding the second and third stories, are you familiar with the "time slip" work of Starfire Tor? You might look her up if you're not.

    I am sure you know who Whitley Strieber is, and he has also had several of these re-do experiences. If you ever listen to his Dreamland radio show online, there are some shows in the archives about just this sort of thing,and some of them feature Starfire Tor as the guest.

    I was declared dead by paramedics once, but I experienced nothing until I regained consciousness 7 hours later. It was a highway patrolman who told me I'd been declared dead and left there while they helped the people in the truck who hit me. That is one reason why I like to hear of others who have had experiences that confirm there is something after this. For me, it was nothingness, followed by confusion when I came to in the hospital and wondered how I could be there since I was dead. (Time had slowed WAY down as the accident was about to happen and I knew for sure I would die). I knew I was alive, because there is no way they'd have those ugly hospital gowns in the after life. :D The only conclusion I can come to is that maybe the paramedics made a mistake and I was not really dead....it would not be the first time they've screwed up. When I get stung by insects, I always pray the firemen will arrive first, since they are FAR more competent than the ambulance paramedics.

    Loving this thread,
    klutzo
     
  15. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Klutzo,

    LOVED the Rocky and Bullwinkle reference in your second story.

    At the time I wrote it I was thinking Monty Python. But you are right, R & B used it years earlier.

    "time slip" work of Starfire Tor?

    Nope, not familiar.


    I am sure you know who Whitley Strieber is, and he has also had several of these re-do experiences.

    Not familiar either.


    I suppose I have been lucky so far. I've never awakened in the hospital after something with damage. In the life I'm living I have no accdents or tickets in 35 years. I remember all sorts of crashes though. They always resulted in a clean recurrance, coming in far enough ahead of it for it not to happen. One time in Nevada, out in the desert getting lost looking for 7 devils hotsprings, there was a road we about to take and I just couldn't do it. I was having flashes of dying miserably with my wife and friend if I took that road, so I didn't. As soon as I turned away from it the terrible feeling lifted. That shifted us into the sequence I had seen over and over in my dreams of getting stuck in a newly washed out section of road avoiding a rock which is why we had brought shovels. We were stuck for 3 days. We had camping gear and 6 days worth of food and water except for bathing.
     
  16. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    Hi Freddd I'm still confused. It sounds like you have a complete nonlocal out of space and time precognitive experience of what could happen and then avoid it? IE you avoided being shot--by both of you 'living' through the fact that you could, and/or you experienced the energies left over by the drug dealers? or experienced being shot as someone ELSE had been shot there? As for that turn did you still get stuck for 3 days--or was that a dream you avoided? I'm confused.
     
  17. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Jenbooks,

    Sorry for the confusion. I'll try to be more clear.

    It sounds like you have a complete nonlocal out of space and time precognitive experience of what could happen and then avoid it?

    Or from a recurrance point of view I remembered it from a previous experience and remembered it soon enough not to go down that road and hence avoided it. For the several weeks preceding the trip, we were going to California for a labor day weekend workshop, we decided to go to 7 devils and left a day early, I had been dreaming of this rock. For days prior both myself and my wife said "we have to take shovels" and I had kept having a dream of driving on a dirt road and swerving to avoid a rock in the road. The dream had a certain "slice of life" quality to it so I knew it was different. It was more like remembering than dreaming. It had only washed out 2 days before we got there from a 100 year storm. So we were "dreaming" of it for weeks before it happened.

    After we turned away from the "death" road the releif was huge. Less than a couple of miles later there was a rock in the middle of the road. On the other side of s slight hump in the road was a washout I couldn't see. When I swerved around the rock both right wheels went into a four foot deep washout and the vehicle was sitting on it's frame on the ground, no damage. We had a tent, king size air mattress and sleeping bags and six days of food and water as we had been planning to camp. We also had shovels and workgloves because of both my dreams and my wifes. We did get stuck when I avoided the rock exactly as seen in the dreams. I just didn't remember the getting stuck part. We missed the workshop but got home on Tuesday as we had planned. We did manage to have fresh brewed coffee and cream each day of being stuck. If we had been stuck one more day it would have been rough. We would have run out of coffee.

    IE you avoided being shot--by both of you 'living' through the fact that you could, and/or you experienced the energies left over by the drug dealers? or experienced being shot as someone ELSE had been shot there?

    I experienced being shot as me. My wife saw me get shot. Did you ever see 12:01? It reminded me very much of a scene in that. He gets shot and is still in motion when he recurrs. I had started to duck to the side as I saw the gun come up. When I found myself back in my body I was still executing that move to the side. We compared notes and we both remembered it essentially the same way. To me it seemed that I had ducked slightly farther than my wife remembered.

    As far as I could tell it was us and nothing at all left over. Nothing had happened in that apartment prior to us moving in except some smoke damage from a small fire in the garage below the apartment which is why it was freshly painted with new drapes and carpets and why the drug dealers had moved out. Some guys motorcycle had caught fire. I met somebody who knew of the drug dealers there years later. It seemed like a clear case of mistaken identity. Somebody out to get him got me instead.
     
  18. klutzo

    klutzo Senior Member

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    Communion

    Fred,
    Whitley Strieber is the best selling author of a series of books on his abductions, starting with Communion. He also wrote Transformation, Day After Tomorrow, The Greys, 2012 and several others. His website is www.unknowncountry.com.

    He and Starfire Tor are the only others I know of who have had experiences just like the ones you are describing. They believe them to be parallel time lines in infinite parallel universes. It is more complicated than that, but I have a five inch stack of mail to go through right now, and their own words would explain it better than I ever could.

    Later....

    klutzo
     
  19. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Klutzo,

    If you go back to quantum physics and the Copenhagan interpretation there are 3 main schools of thought on that now, classical, neoclassical and many-worlds. The many worlds interpretation ties right into string theory and perhaps 10 dimensions all folded very tightly into the appearance of this world. All the worlds, time and dimensions coexist in the same single cosmic instant. One doesn't need to get into all sorts of weird alien ideas, quantum physics is quite enough. There was a site of which I have lost sight, that tied ancient "unauthored" Vedas to nondualism and multidimensional quantum theory. Very interesting. I'm much more inclined in that direction than Greys. I know the woman who did the original scupture displayed on a futuristic medical table left over from a different museum exhibit of which many degraded images exist and are misinterpreted.
    http://www.indranet.com/roswell/roswell.html
    http://www.slimeworld.org/strange/

    Read the real story.
     
  20. Marylib

    Marylib Senior Member

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    Great book and website, it you are interested....

    Hi all,

    Well, you never know where you will end up on these forums...I kinda think this thread needs to be moved off on its own?? What do you think?

    Anyway, I am happy to read all you folks have shared of your experiences and thoughts. I have been a not-so-secret "mystic" most of my life ( I am 53). Lived as a monastic nun in the Self Realization Fellowship ashram in LA for 8 years (a story in itself, believe me.) Have read about just everything there is to read, have been meditating for years and all that...

    Of course there is lots to talk about and we all have our individual experiences. For my part, I can suggest a book that I feel is hands down the most remarkable teaching I have ever encountered. The book explores Tantra, Kaballah, Christianity, Sufiism, Zen, you name it. On the level of simple historical education about various spiritual paths, it is fabulous. But is also offers a teaching and practices.

    It is called "Heavens and Hells of the Mind," by Imre Vallyon. (A Hungarian name, in case you are wondering.) If you go to the website called: www.soundinglight.com, you can read excerpts and listen to talks. You just go to the "library" section.

    I don't think the Whitley Streiber folks will be into it, but you never know.

    Anyway, the talks and book exerpts are free at this website. Enjoy.


    Marylib
     

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