Phoenix Rising: The Gift That Keeps on Giving All Year Long
This holiday season Jody Smith turns her eyes to the people of Phoenix Rising and gives thanks for you all ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Metal induced autoimmunity?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Marco, Dec 16, 2014.

  1. Marco

    Marco Grrrrrrr!

    Messages:
    2,379
    Likes:
    3,193
    Near Cognac, France
    This came up in the context of a recent discussion regarding amalgam fillings and CFS. I admit to be being sceptical.

    While neurotoxicity of high level exposure to environmental mercury is uncontrovesial, the same can't be said for detrimental effects, if any, to human health through low level chronic exposure from whatever source. Yet a number of papers suggest that heavy metals can effect the immune system and potentially interact with or exacerbate autoimmune diseases.

    This paper may not be the most recent (or best) but does give a general overview :

    Adverse immunological effects and autoimmunity induced by dental amalgam and alloy in mice.

    "We hypothesize that under appropriate conditions of genetic susceptibility and adequate body burden, heavy metal exposure from dental amalgam may contribute to immunological aberrations, which could lead to overt autoimmunity."

    http://www.fasebj.org/content/8/14/1183.long

    My question is. Is this a valid/accepted paradigm and applicable beyond animal models?
     
    melamine likes this.
  2. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes:
    1,035
    Given that the paper is 20 years old I would expect that several steps forward have been done in the research... Personally I don't find much controversy in the hypothesis that toxic metals affect human health. The evidence that they do is indeed overwhelming.

    As regards dental amalgams the FDA says that amalgams are mostly safe... they say they have reviewed the best evidence, although there is no reference to such evidence:
    http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/P...es/DentalProducts/DentalAmalgam/ucm171094.htm

    I have seen lots of evidence indicative of the contrary so I am not sure how I would believe the Hg amalgams are as safe as they are purported to be.

    More in general... almost every pesticide and toxic substance is pretty much safe when taken alone within the recommended limits established by the various institutions. Problem is we're exposed to hundreds of them and their cumulative effect is not taken in consideration.

    When you eat a pear with 6 pesticide residues you're summing the toxic effects of those six xenobiotics, plus those of all the other veggies or polluted foods you're consuming as well.

    Similarly when you get your dental amalgams replaced (in a non safe modality) you're getting an extra dose of ultra high dose of mercury vapour that goes into your system. I doubt that the FDA, WHO etc... have ever conducted a large scale study on the long term effects of these exposure and the cumulative effects of replacing amalgams etc...

    my 2c
     
    ahmo and melamine like this.
  3. Marco

    Marco Grrrrrrr!

    Messages:
    2,379
    Likes:
    3,193
    Near Cognac, France
    Indeed. But many later papers seem to deal with more specific and less potentially relevant subjects.

    This 2011 abstract though does review recent research and suggests the invovlement of mast cells which is interesting given recent talk of an allergic like immune pattern in ME/CFS :

    Autoimmunity-Inducing Metals (Hg, Au and Ag) Modulate Mast Cell Signaling, Function and Survival

    "In this review, we provide an overview of recent advances in our understanding of the impacts of the three metals on mast cell signaling, function and survival and their possible roles in the pathologies of metal-induced autoimmunity."

    http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ben/cpd/2011/00000017/00000034/art00009

    I can't access the full paper unfortunately.
     
  4. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,750
    Likes:
    23,195
    melamine likes this.
  5. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

    Messages:
    5,250
    Likes:
    32,017
    I doubt one could say that this was an accepted paradigm, although I am not sure what that means these days. I find it hard to take seriously a model where you breed mice that get strange effects from alloys and then show they get strange effects from alloys. The dosage is certainly way out of line with the human situation. We know that haptenisation with metals and drugs can induce antinuclear antibodies. We also know that mercury causes immune complex nephritis, but it seems hard to tie these two together since the antigen they found would not be likely to produce soluble immune complexes and a nephropathy. Antibodies to nucleoproteins usually produce other sorts of effects. I think it may just demonstrate that if you go looking for something in a mouse model you can always find it.
     
  6. Marco

    Marco Grrrrrrr!

    Messages:
    2,379
    Likes:
    3,193
    Near Cognac, France
    Many thanks. They did discuss dose equivalence in the discussion but otherwise file under 'quacksalver'?
     
  7. Ian

    Ian Senior Member

    Messages:
    277
    Likes:
    239

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page