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Metabolite-Detecting Gene Expression After Exercise in CFS, MS, and Controls

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by CBS, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. oceanblue

    oceanblue Senior Member

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    MF, PF and pain were chosen by the authors as they were focusing on pain and fatigue perception. It's possible that symptoms are delayed, but note that MF, PF and pain correlated with gene expression in the larger 2011 paper, which is why it bothered me they didn't in this paper. It's the correlation between biological changes and symptoms that made the first paper so compelling.
  2. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    Thanks Oceanblue.

    It was a pity they had a few patients overlapping from another study. I wonder why they did that.

    I don't believe there was any discussion or investigation of this finding which would have been interesting:

    from:
    I suppose this is the problem when one publishes papers close together and one isn't sure that one will definitely be published before another paper is published.
    I'm guessing this happens more in other fields where researchers can be more prolific.
  3. oceanblue

    oceanblue Senior Member

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    That's a good idea, and would provide some quantative data on how well matched the patients are. In practice, it may be very difficult to find healthy controls that are truly matched to CFS patients, unless those pateints are mildly affected, in which case there may be questions about how appicable the findings are to more severly affected patients. That's why I'd like to see exertion matched on RPE between controls and patients (so long as the RPE was set at a level that would normally cause PEM etc to patients). Another possibility is to use activity-matched patients with a different illness. MDD would be particularly interesting as their inactiity is presumably linked to motivation rather than underlying pathology.

    Of course, it's also what they were trying to do with the fatigued MS controls; actometer data would have been helpful to establish if activity levels were indeed comparable (the disability scale information they provided suggested these patients might have been quite active, but we don't know for sure). It's a pity that the difference between MS and CFS wasn't more clear cut (adrenergic the same for both and different from controls, metabolite-sensing different between CFS and MS).

    Now that would be a very interesting study.
  4. oceanblue

    oceanblue Senior Member

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    The overlap was with the 2009 pilot. They didn't explicitly say there was no overlap with larger the 2011(e)/2012 paper; if I was them I wouldn't have left any patients out of that study to get the sample size as big as possible - so perhaps patients overlapped wtih that one too. I think all of the patients in this MS study were tested well before the other paper came out:
  5. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    I contacted the authors. I was told the legend for figure 1 is black circle = pain; open triangle = mental fatigue; solid triangle = physical fatigue.
  6. oceanblue

    oceanblue Senior Member

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    This was based on some earlier comments by Cort and Alan Light, but it seems from Cort's NIH 2012 Review that I got that wrong and bigger studies are underway, though probably not with MS patients:

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