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Metabolic Diet & Supplements - an Exploration

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Gestalt, Jul 4, 2012.

  1. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    In 1960's Dr.William Donald Kelley came down with a very aggressive form of pancreatic cancer. The cancer grew such that very large tumors that were protruding from his torso. Subsequently in an effort to heal himself of this life threatening ailment Dr.Kelly began experimenting with various supplements. He responded very quickly to them and then discovered something shocking! An astute empirical observer, Dr.Kelly noticed that certain minerals and vitamins were detrimental and actually made the tumor worse and the tumor protrusions grew in size sticking further out of his torso! He noticed however, that other minerals and vitamins had the opposite effect and noticeably decreased the size of the tumors thus healing him.

    The supplements that made the cancerous tumor worse and grow more quickly were:
    • Vitamin A, B12, panthothenic acid, choline, inositol, Calcium Ascorbate, Vitamin E, Calcium, Zinc, Selenium, Saturated fats, cholesterol, EPA and DHA
    The supplements that decreased tumor size and resulted in healing were:
    • Beta Carotene, Thaimin (B1), Riboflavin (B2), Niacin, Pyridoxine (B6), Folic Acid, Vitamin D, Magnesium, Potassium, Manganese, Chromium, Alpha-linolenic acid
    This led to a rather counter intuitive discovery. Most people assume that all minerals and vitmains are good for everyone. However in supplemental form this clearly wasn't the case. Some supplements as well as foods had a decidedly negative effect while others had a positive effect.

    Thus Dr.Kelly formulated a protocol to help cure people of cancer. It worked very well on a large number of people however there were some people it had the opposite effect and appeared to make them more ill. He got to the point where with one patient, he decided to do the very opposite of what worked for him and recommended she ate all the foods that made him worse. Within a day she began recovering. This led to the discovery of metabolic type. One man's food is another mans poison.


    *Note: Dr.Kelly also found that some supplements in small quantities had a SNS type effect, however in larger quantities had a PNS effect, and vice versa.

    Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS) vs. Para-sympathetic Nervous System (PNS)
    In an effort to look for the reasons why people should respond so differently to diet & supplements Dr. Kelly came across work relating to individual dominance in the nervous system and how it relates to metabolism. The nervous system is responsible for controlling a whole host of chemical reactions within the body including digestion and the need for various nutrients and much more. It would stand to reason that a dominance in one type would lead to different nutritional requirements.

    [​IMG]

    The parasympathetic is know for recovery and digestion its functions being primarily anabolic, where as the sympathetic nervous system primarily catabolic and is known for activation of the fight, flight or freeze response.

    These systems also have a well known effect on the body's acid-alkaline balance. Parasympathetic dominance leading to more of a alkaline state, and sympathetic leading to more a acidic state. This has a functional effect on much of the body's biochemistry.

    A cure for Cancer
    Because Dr.Kelly had pancreatic cancer he also thought it prudent to take pancreatic enzymes to help support digestion seeing as his pancreas was compromised. Pancreatic enzymes main function is to assist in the breakdown of food. SNS dominants, which is what Dr.Kelly is typically have decreased production of pancreatic enzymes to begin with. However Dr.Kelly noticed a peculiar effect. When he took pancreatic enzymes independent of meal times he noticed a dramatic decrease in tumor protrusion size. This was a very peculiar discovery. Why should digestive enzymes taken independent of food have an effect on cancer growth at all!? Something else was going on.

    He went to his local library where he came across an obscure book written by Dr.John Beard who at the turn of the century in 1911 discovered that pancreatic enzymes could be used to cure cancer. Now he was on to something.

    Dr.John Beard discovered there is a bizarre connection between the similarity of cancer cells and placenta cells when they first begin growing via the fetus into the uterus. Placental cells replicate in the same invasive fashion into the uterine lining supplying a developing fetus with much needed nutrients in much the same way that cancer tumors form and feed themselves. However what was it that caused the placenta to stop growing? Dr.Beard discovered that right at the time the placenta stops growing the fetus's pancreas begins production of enzymes. Now this is rather strange because a fetus isn't eating and digesting food so why on earth would it need these enzymes? Nutrients comes from the blood of the mother already in a predigested broken down form.

    Thus Dr.Beard discovered that pancreatic enzymes have an inhibiting effect on the growth of placental cells and are NOT just for digesting food, and using this theory began to treat cancer in a wide variety of animals and humans. Dr.Kelly then went on to use this approach on thousands of people, and Dr.Gonzalez follows in his foot steps to this day. Many people diagnosed with stage four "incurable" forms of cancer have been cured using these enzymes.

    SNS & PNS the Personality type connection
    So how does a person determine if they are SNS or PNS dominant? There are also people who are dominant in neither and are more balanced. As most things in nature occur in dualities likewise those dualities exist on a continuous spectrum. Broadly there are 3 categories, each with their own respective spectrum:
    • SNS Dominant - Type A or Fight/Flight/Freeze
    • PNS Dominant- Type B or Rest/Repair/Digest
    • Balanced or Mixed
    Remember that none of this Black or White. No one fits into a category 100%, rather there tend to be general tendencies to one end, or perhaps not and you are balanced. I believe that the Judging/Perceiving metric of Myers-Briggs personality type system is most likely one of the best indicators of SNS vs PNS dominance.

    Stereotypical characteristics of SNS dominance are: A high Judging score as per Myers-Briggs, anxiety, insomnia, heart racing, heart issues, adrenal fatigue, goose bumps more frequent, gastro-intestinal issues, issues digesting dense fatty meat, agitated, jittery wired, restless, tend to be pale, impatient, aggressive, ambitious, motivated, confrontational

    Stereotypical characteristics of PNS dominance are: A high Perceiving score on Myers-Briggs, disorganization, depression, apathy, lethargy, spaciness, poor concentration, low libido, allergies/sensitivities, dry skin, weight gain, dry irritated eyes, low blood pressure, asthma, dizziness, tired but wired, creative, more laid back, relaxed, love food, more sociable


    *Update: I have developed what I believe a more accurate method of determining your metabolic type based on your myers-briggs score. Please read and follow the instuctions in the following link: http://www.gestaltreality.com/2013/03/29/determining-metabolic-pns-sns-dominance-using-myers-briggs/

    Dominance and CFS/ME/Fibromyalgia
    CFS really messes things up here and can make this all very confusing. Someone who is SNS dominant has tons of energy and then goes into adrenal fatigue will have their PNS system take over and have all the negative symptoms of PNS dominance and the SNS symptoms with none of the benefits of each. The PNS systems and the SNS system will be "fighting" each other. For those who have CFS and suspect they have a dominance, it's important to go back to BEFORE the CFS started to figure out your inclination and support that. It's possible to swing to far to one side in attempt to achieve balance. Every person is going to have a different balance point where diet/supplements have an optimal level. When the body is besieged by infection or toxins PNS mode may begin to dominate in a person who is not naturally programmed for that state. Thus supporting the underlying fundamental SNS dominance becomes pertinent.

    A person who is PNS dominant might believe they need an all vegan diet, and may make things worse for themselves. A SNS might take all the PNS supplements believing that is what they need, and compromise their system. There is much to be learned here and how it applies to CFS, I believe the journey has only begun.

    I have a strong hunch that some of the cases of CFS out there, might be people who are supplementing/eating wrong for their metabolic type. Sometimes also cultural foods/diets may not line up well with a persons given dominance. Often partners in relationships are the opposite dominance (opposites attract, duh!) which can make communal cooking tenuous at best leading one person to feel well and the other to feel ill resulting in conflict over diet.

    Metabolic type could be one potential cause in a multi-factorial set of causes, but defitnately something to consider especially if a dominance is present. If a strong inclination isn't present this may not be of much help.

    Metabolic type & Methylation
    As far as I know, no one has studied the connection. Obviously there would be some implications. The work of Allan Schore seems to suggest that a lot of a person's personality and nervous system programming is layed down depending on nurture-like environmental factors and circumstances. The nervous system "templates" itself off the mother and the region of the brain that controls the CNS and ANS is one of the most neuro-plastic region of the brain. Via the latest research in neuroscience incredible things have been discovered in how the brain can rewire itself heavily modulating the SNS and PNS. Thus there is a psychosomatic aspect to this as well.

    However it seems likely genetic factors are at play here as well. Down-regulations on COMT and MAO as well as the ACE deletion would likely have the effect of increasing nor-epinephrine levels in the body which would act as a permanent trigger on the SNS. Thus it is conceivable that nutritional workarounds for the polymorphisms could again help modulate SNS and PNS. Changes anywhere in the methylation cycle can have an impact on neurotransmitters which is how the SNS and PNS become activated.

    Diet:
    Dr.Kelly found that SNS dominants do better on a Vegan/Vegetarian diet, PNS dominants do best on a high fat/protein meat based diet, and mixed or balanced get the best of both world and do best on a more Mediterranean mixed type diet. Also the PNS types do better with acid forming food where as SNS types do better with alkaline forming foods.
    Awesome Video Lecture where I got most of the above info from:
    More Info:
    CJB, brenda, Hanna and 1 other person like this.
  2. Boost

    Boost *****

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    Quite frankly, this sounds made up.
  3. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

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    no, its not made up. I just watched the video of Dr. Gonzalez MD and it makes alotta sesnse. Another big piece of the puzzle. maybe this is the reason the post "B 2, I love you" exists and others agree whereas so many other people get nothing from it. Or,they get worse. Or its the reason some need folate and others need b12. Or why some get so sick on one of those.

    Ya know, I guess I sorta followed some of this when I got so much better! I didn't even realize my doc was using metabolic medicine that way. She would ignore some of the Yasko recommendations saying they weren't right the choice for my "make up" and when I tried them anyway, I found she was very, very, very right. Looking at Gestalts list, it makes sense. But where My doc seems to use this alott is cancer. She's using this to successfully treat my sisters advanced endometrial cancer as well as my sister's mother in law's pancreatic cancer, both with really good results. Their oncologists were both blown away by the cancer regression!

    Its back to there's no one treatment or diet that works on all of us for full recoveries but using pieces of more individual stuff is the way out.

    Thank you so much Gestalt! I'll show this to my sister, too.
  4. Boost

    Boost *****

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    90%+ of the people here would have a mixture from both of these groups so it really doesnt provide anything useful.

    Myself
    SNS: anxiety, heart racing, adrenal fatigue, gastro issues, issues digesting fatty meat.
    PNS: apathy, lethary, spaciness, low libido, creative, love food.

    Look, chances are you have boostonia if you are fatigued, anxious, have trouble sleeping, like to drink water and crouch when taking a dump in a public toilet.
  5. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

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    I understand your cynicism, Boost, really. I am probably one of the MOST cynical people on the planet. But have you watched the video? If not, I don't think you can really poke fun at it. I don't see Gestalt saying you are just one or the other type. It would seem pretty obvious that we'd all fall into both at times. But I can sure see type A in myself before and after crashing, even though I have a few signs of being the other. And I'm sure there are some creative type B artsy and calmer types who see themselves in this, too. To me, its not about trying to give ourselves another diagnosis or tail to chase, so much as figuring out what supplements or diet might be better. I've always eaten mostly vegetables, fruits, sweets, and a little meat and figured everyone should avoid too much meat. but then looking back, I have friends who clearly need meat to live and it wouldn't seem right to try to limit that. Plus, if it helps me figure out my vitamins and minerals more so I don't keep adding in crap that only makes me sick, I'm all about learning more about this.

    Gestalt, You mentioned something about you and your partner having some good results when I asked about metabolic typing in another post. It would be nice to hear another example of how it helped. How did you do? were they bigger changes or did you have to really take time to evaluate for them?
  6. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    Actually 100% of people will likely have a bit of both. However most people will tend to a side. With some having a stronger tendency than others.

    My dad and I saw Dr.Kristal about 10 years ago, and he typed both of us wrong using his test methods. He at the time typed us both PNS. I had originally given up on all this because of that however I wasn't aware of Dr.Kelly's work at the time.

    A SNS dominant with CFS will often wrongly appear to be PNS dominant, as was the case for me originally...that's why it's important to go based of how you were before you got CFS.

    Dr.Kelly devised a test of 3200 questions in order to help determine dominance. So if your confused you can do that. I would venture an educated guess that about 33% of the population is SNS dominant, 33% PNS dominant and 33% Mixed.

    I now know that I am a strong SNS dominant and my partner is a strong PNS dominant after filling out an extensive questionnaire our new doctor had us do.
    I started the SNS supplements, and started having improvements in my health within 12 hours. I would say it has boosted my overall health and well being by about 5-10%, but then again I am already on a SNS diet...which really is the most important part.

    My partner on the other hand who is a PNS was having really bad skin problems, and she had been on a strict vegan diet for half a year thinking that it would heal her. Well initially it helped, she felt amazing after detox, but several months later things got progressively worse for her. After doctor's orders, within 30 minutes of eating a steak, her symptoms began to alleviate. Now she needs to eat fatty red meat 3x a day in order to keep symptoms at bay. The meat diet really helps her...much to her personal dismay and my surprise. She doesn't like meat.

    One thing for me I found is that as an SNS dominant my body tends towards a catabolic state. This means that often it breaks down muscle tissue for energy almost preferentially over fat. Contrary to SNS dogma I eat a high protein diet in order to compensate for this...however it is from a raw vegan sprouted brown rice protein powder source. My body digests it easily and I can fuel my muscles keeping them in a slight anabolic state. This has really helped me preserve energy and alleviated many CFS symptoms. I am 6ft at 190lbs and I eat almost 175g of protein a day. I am eating 35g of protein minimum every 3 waking hours. That's 5 meals a day.

    Because my citric acid cycle is compromised due to methylation issues, mitochondrial factories are not working great. Cardio is out of the question so thus I have resorted to a minimalist bodybuilding program instead. Cardio is based on how long your mitochondrial factories can pump out energy. Weight lifting ont he other hand is more about tearing and rebuilding muscle fibers.

    I find that pumping iron, really helps balance my SNS. I work out 1x a week for 45mins, and have been building solid muscle mass and strength. It's like pumping iron, forces my body especially my muscles to strive for an anabolic state most of the time, provided I fuel them with adequate protein. The workout is inherently catabolic, however the 4day to 1week rest period where the muscles repair & rebuild is anabolic. It really grounds out that SNS dominance.

    And recently I found out I am COMT ++, which means a 3-4 fold reduced clearance of nor-epinephrine from neural synapses comapred to the average person. Adrenaline is the prime catalyst for the SNS system. Thus this polymorphism may partially help explain my stated dominance from a methylation genomic point of view.
  7. Lynn_M

    Lynn_M Senior Member

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    Gestalt,
    Could someone determine whether they were SNS or PNS dominant based solely on whether they were anabolic or catabolic? Based on my urinary 17-ketosteroids/17-hydroxysteroids ratio, my test results over the last 4 years show me to be extremely catabolic. Would that be enough to say I'm SNS? For what it's worth, my hair analyses always showed me to be PNS.
  8. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

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    I'll be honest, you are WAAAAAAAY over my head on all of thIs stuff but I am REALLY interested. Just based on how you are on this site, I can't imagine anyone saying your type B!!!!!! Just the time you take to write up stuff, like this topic, is really type A. But then when I saw it helped you 5-10% I thought, Big whoop? why even bother. But then I read the rest of your post and you sound very active with exercise and weight lifting. So I'm guessing your more like me and higher up on the recovery chain? I'm now at 90% so another 5-10% would be positively smashing! Its pretty cool about your partner! How crazy that she was a vegetarian and had to eat meat to do better. I would have a hard time with that news but then, I'm very type A so thankfully won't have to!

    Thinking it over, I've had alotta medical recommendations this past year that seem to connect with all of this stuff but she just didn't use these terms. I knew from the start she meshed the best parts of different treatments so I never thought much about it. Now I guess it makes more sense. That's also when I made such big improvements so I'm enthused about this now. I can't wait for my follow up visit next month! I'll have to read this over a few times to digest it and maybe PM you on this. I've watched the video a few times and learn so much each time! Thanks again for taking the time to do all this, its really interesting.
  9. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    I'm not sure how you determined degree of catabolism from a 17-ketosteroids/17-hydroxysteroids ratio. Or how you got that your PNS from a hair analysis. Please do explain.

    I think the best way to determine dominance is via a personality type test.

    A judging score (>50%) is indicative of strong SNS dominance.
    A perceiving score (>50%) is indicative of strong PNS dominance.

    A judging score (25-50%) is indicative of moderate SNS dominance.
    A perceiving score (25-50%) is indicative of moderate PNS dominance.

    A judging or perceiving score <25% is indicative of more mixed or balanced type.

    This is a theory of mine so far, so it be interesting to see if it pans out. A more accurate version of the above test is the MBTI Step 2. (warning-these test are subject to strong personal bias. So answer questions honestly...not what quality you would like or prefer.) Or you can do Dr.Kelly's 3,200 questionnaire....that would be the ultimate. Best way to eliminate personal bias.

    I'm about 85% recovered, so I am getting really close! It's obvious with your high level of intellectual enthusiasm in your posts you are type A, SNS dominance. lol
  10. Lynn_M

    Lynn_M Senior Member

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    I've had 4 Genova Diagnostics Complete Hormones tests in 4 years. After receiving a sample of a 24 hr. urine collection, Genova measures Progesterone, nine 17-Ketosteroid (androgens) metabolites, six 17-Hydroxysteroids (Glucocorticoids) metabolites, three Estrogens, five Estrogen metabolites, and ratios. It measures an Anabolic/Catabolic Balance by looking at the ratio of Catabolic (17-Hydroxysteroids Total) to Anabolic (17-Ketosteroids Total). My score always put me at the extreme catabolic end of that balance.

    I have had ARL and Trace Elements, Inc. hair analysis. The test results indicate a person's oxidizer type, and I have always been slow. I believe the practitioner that interpreted some of my tests said I had a PNS.

    Based on my extremely low metabolism of 2- and 4- hydroxyestrones to the methyl forms, which is controlled by COMT, I think I must also be COMT++. But since I'm MTHFR A1298C++, I think those two mutations must offset each other somewhat as far as neurotransmitters go. But apparently not for estrogen, because I definitely don't metabolize estrogen well. My doctor said I was on 1/8 the normal dose of bioidentical HRT, and I still had symptoms of excess. After delving into the genetics of methylation, now I understand why.
  11. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    Lynn_M,

    Hormones are extremely complex especially for females. They fluctuate wildly daily, weekly, yearly and by decade plus there are cycles within cycles. Whoever designed the female hormone system had some serious fun. Unless you can track all that plus genetic factors, I don't think it's a good indicator of metabolic dominance at all. There are still too many unknown variables.

    If you have issues with estrogen metabolism, you may have a down-regulated CYP3A4. According to Genova it is one of the primary metabolizers of steroid hormones. CYP3A4 can have up to a 40x fold fluctuation in expression depending on diet, so you have to consider that as well. And if you have a COMT++, it's a double whammy. And if you have an up-regulated CYP1B1, its a tripple whammy with very damaging effects. And we haven't considered xenoestrogens and the other CYP enzymes yet either. You can read my thread about it here: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ogens-link-to-cfs-fibromyalgia-success.17874/

    As far as the hair analysis is concerned, I am very skeptical. I think I read here on the forums, that depending on your hair genetics, some people don't put as many of certain minerals into their hair as others, which can lead to false conclusions about ACTUAL mineral status in the body. In addition to this, depending on your metabolic type, demands for certain minerals will be higher than a "norm". So thus I wouldn't trust it to help determine ANS dominance status either.
    WoolPippi likes this.
  12. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    I find this whole topic fascinating and want to look into it more. It did not take me long at all to know that I am too far over on the PNS side since I have many of those characteristics. Also, Gestalt, I forgot what other thread I read, but part ofthe discussion was about nostril dominance with breathing and found this.......

    "The left nostril is more open and the right more congested when the right hemisphere of the brain is more active and is associated with increased activity of the PNS. The right nostril is more open and the left more congested when the left hemisphere of the brain is more active and is associated with increased activity of the SNS."

    http://yang-sheng.com/?p=2718

    I am definitely left nostril dominant with my breathing. My right nostril constantly feels partially congested and I know it's not congested from any sinus/head cold related issues.
  13. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    So can one assume from the above that one would be more in balance when one can feel an equal amount of air passage thru each nostril?
  14. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    I think it's a nifty idea, and recently came across a biological laterality test by dominant over/under hand clapping test that tries to establish a similar correlation. (source) It would be cool if it were that simple...

    However both theories are wrong and I can disprove them via myself. I breathe considerably easier through my left nostril, yet I am strong SNS dominant, and I clap with my left hand on top, yet I am right handed for almost everything else.
  15. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    I'd always heard that our breathing cycles between nostrils, changing over every hour and a half.

    Gestalt, I love how easy you make the links.

    Madie
  16. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

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    I think the next area would be finding which genes control the nervous system dominance. Between that and methylation, it seems like you'd get 60-75% of the chronically sick people well again.
    Gestalt likes this.
  17. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    Contrarily to what I thought, I was PNS dominant. Becoming less and less so as things improve.
    I used to think I was SNS dominant and that I had been so too long and that recovery would come from relaxing activities. This was not so.
    The more I recover, the more time I spend breathing through the right nostril, that is the more I can spend time in SNS dominance.
    It could be that to be in SNS dominance you need properly functioning ATP! Can't be in the fight mode if you are exhausted.
    Thanks Gestalt from bringing this up in that other post. It has changed my opinion on this. I used to think I was not relaxing enough. I am now sure that more relaxation will not be useful. I have switched to active meditations. Right nostril breathing and other solar meditations. Which somehow fits with the fact that sunbathing helps me, so much that a lack of sunbathing can induce a slowing down of recovery. I need more Sun and less Moon.
    + it seems an inordinate amount of sleep, much more than before. A sure sign of recovery.

    This also changes my analysis of the effects of Bains Dérivatifs. They must be either stimulating the Sympathetic response, or balancing SNS and PNS. I thought hey were inducing a Parasympathetic response. I was wrong.
    Be well,
    Asklipia
  18. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    Hi Gestalt, I like your thread. You stated: One thing for me I found is that as an SNS dominant my body tends towards a catabolic state

    One of my doctors said this to me to and wanted me to eat more protein. Now I am on a low protein diet due to CBS defect and I am worried that my body is doing just this. I have not lost any fat and I am worried about losing my muscle tone that I did build while eating a higher protein diet. Also, looking at my different ways of eating in the past, i tend to see that I do better with lower meat proteins. Can you tell me the brand of Rice protein that you found that works for you?
    Also do you feel it creates any excitotoxicity?
  19. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    The brand of Organic Sprouted Brown Rice Prtein I get is this one:
    http://sproutliving.com/products/epic-protein-organic-brown-rice-protein-powder.html
    It's cheapest to buy the 5lb bags. Oh and here is a coupon for 10% off.

    What is a low protein diet to you? Exactly how many grams of protein do you get a day?

    I really have no idea if increased protein intake dramatically affects excitotoxicity via increase in ammonia. Yasko says it does, but that's not good enough for me. I would like to see some studies and lab data proving that in a significant way. Yasko takes some liberties and makes some assumptions I question at times.

    I can tell you from personal experience I had massive issues with excitotoxicity on a very low protein diet, and less so on a high protein diet. I recently started taking about 1.5g of yucca a day, and it it has helped tremendously. So thus I know for a fact I have an issue with ammonia excitotoxicity. However it appears to be independent of my protein intake....

    So then where is the ammonia coming from?

    My feeling is that it is coming more so from bacteria in the gut rather than protein breakdown. I don't know how much yucca gets absorbed into the body and the blood stream, but as a wild guess I would say not much because it is more fibrous.That means most likely it's doing most of it's work absorbing ammonia produced by bacteria in the gut.

    What really needs to be studied is how much ammonia the bacteria in your gut create vs how much is created by protein and amino acid metabolism. Also this needs to be compared to energy metabolism via the pathway: ATP to ADP to AMP and ammonia. What needs to be determined is at what point in protein intake do ammonia levels rise excessively? Some protein is absolutely necessary.

    If you go to low on protein, it will also impair your ability to detoxify ammonia because your body naturally eliminates ammonia via the urea cycle and that requires amino acids found in protein such as glutamate (cofactor), arginine, (ornithine form arginine) and aspartate.
  20. freshveggies

    freshveggies Senior Member

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    Thanks for the good explanation and link.
    I have been only eating 3 oz of fish a day and then getting a little bit of nuts and some fats. I think it is quite inadequate for nutrients. The foods are so limited for a CBS defect. I really wonder if there is another work around for this. Freddd just seems to hit it without worrying about the CBS defect. Dr. Nathan also has said that in the end it will work itself out, but will take longer. I just don't want to hurt myself in the meantime and have any setbacks, because I frankly don't feel like I know whiat I am doing and my doctor just said follow heartfixer.

    That is a thought about where is the ammonia coming from?

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