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Mercury to the Brain? Ginkgo, Vinpocetine, NAC, ALA, and others?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Lotus97, Oct 21, 2012.

  1. chilove

    chilove Senior Member

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    I've been using calcium bentonite clay with great success to detox mercury. I have the MTHFR mutation and got two amalgam fillings removed about 9 months and the detox symptoms (even though I used a bio safe dentist) damn near killed me before I discovered clay. I take baths in clay and drink clay water internally. It helped me in too many ways to list here.

    After doing lots of research it seemed like the gentlest of all the mercury detox options to me and I'm really glad I tried it. I will never be without it again.

    Seriously, check it out.
  2. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    For some people 6000 IU of vitamin D will be stimulatory. First via antagonism of the immune system in the gut unless you bury the vitamin D with high fat meals (and even then ...). Second because if you are VDR Taq -/- this will stimulate dopamine production. If you are also COMT +/+ then vitamin D will really upswing the ambient dopamine since you degrade catecholamines much less efficiently. Finally on top of that some of the other supplements you take may speed the conversion of dopamine to norepinephrine.

    Lyme's disease while quite serious has MANY more symptoms than anxiety and stimulation.

    Other than the timing what symptoms do you have that convince you they are mercury related? Just curious.
  3. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I first started to suspect Lyme Disease based on symptoms a few years ago, but all the symptoms could be caused by other things and when I tried the Buhner Protocol a year or two ago I didn't herx so I put it out of my mind until recently when I had a rash on my ankle where I was bitten by a tick 16 years ago. If it was just that one time I wouldn't think much of it, but the exact same rash appeared 2 1/2 years ago. I never got tested because I've heard that the tests aren't too accurate, but this rash seems pretty solid evidence. As I said with the symptoms they can all be attributed to many other illnesses, but I'll try to list them all. Depression, hypoglycemic symptoms, dry mouth, sensitivity to light, sensitivity to smells, sensitivity to cold and heat, nausea, joint pain, cold feet, heightened stress response. Although many of these symptoms can be caused by adrenal dysfunction which I know I have based on tests, Lyme disease can cause problems with adrenals. Also, I noticed on one of my tests my Rheumatoid Factor was 20. The normal range is 0-20 so I was right on the borderline. I found out that high rheumatoid factor is common among Sjogren's Syndrome which symptoms include dry mouth, cold feet, joint pain, sensitivity to smells, and sensitivity to light. I'm not sure if I have it, but I read that Lyme could either cause or mimic autoimmune conditions such as Sjogren's. As far as herxing goes, I did herx a lot when I was prescribed Clindamycin when I had my tooth removed a few months ago. Also, a few years ago I was taking various prescription antifungals and herbs for candida. When I started, I didn't herx at all on Diflucan and only a little bit when I added Nystatin and a low dose of Capryllic Acid. It wasn't until I started taking a lot of raw garlic that I herxed big time to the point where I could barely get out of bed. Part of that I found out later was because garlic has sedative properties. I assumed the herx was candida die off, but garlic also has antibacterial properties so it could have been that as well. I realize that the Herxheimer Effect is not inevitable when killing pathogenic organisms so maybe the Diflucan was working also. Most of the things I mentioned can be explained away, but the rash seems pretty solid and coupled with the other evidence it seems like enough proof that I have Lyme.

    With the mercury it's true that the symptoms began right after my tooth with an amalgam cracked. I should mention however that around the same time I also began taking methylfolate which I've realized recently was part of the problem. I don't know how much methylfolate I was taking because my bcomplex didn't say, but I know I was probably taking at least 1200 mcg folic acid which is supposed to block methylfolate (?) I was only taking 200 mcg of methycobalamin and that was an oral dose. In the beginning, I was also taking 1200 mg of both ALA and NAC which is supposed cause problems with people who are mercury toxic. However, I had already drastically reduced ALA and NAC by the time I stopped the methylfolate and I haven't felt like taking a high dose of either to test whether they would cause any negative effects. Since I took 1200 mg of NAC and ALA for over a year without any problems if they caused problems now that would be a sign that I am mercury toxic. I did test the B complex with methylfolate though. After I had stopped it for a few days and my symptoms died down I took it again and the overstimulation and heart palpatations returned. Although the symptoms could be from overmethylation, methylation can also cause detox symptoms with some individuals. I realize that most of the time the symptoms are from overmethylation and not detox, but I believe that for myself it was either detox or a combination of both. I have traced some of the overstimulation symptoms to my antidepressant also so that is definitely another component. About a week ago my overstimulation died down, but since then I've been pretty depressed so I'm considering possibility that my antidepressant is working well. I also started probiotics around the same time so my depression could be from die off/herxheimer. Right now I've started chelation with a very low dose of alpha lipoic acid, a low/moderate dose or chlorella, and a high dose of ascorbic acid. I'll probably add binders when I increase the dosage of my chelators, but right now I eat 5 moderate/high fiber meals a day which should be enough to bind to whatever is being released. I've also started taking B12 again, but at a very low dose this time. Part of the reason I decided to start B12 again was because of my recent depression. Although the overstimulation has died down, I still am having heart palpatations though not as much or as severe as in the past. After reading your post I wonder if it's the Vitamin C I'm taking. Actually, the main reason I'm taking the high dose of Vitamin C isn't for chelation. It was because of your post about Vitamin C increasing Glutathione. I thought maybe it could be from the ALA or chlorella, but I'm on a low dose so I'm not sure although I've heard of people on the Cutler protocol taking the low dosages I'm taking. If I am experiencing die off from my probiotics then that could also be contributing to my depression. I've been considering my recent depression partially from glutathione depletion, but I haven't really looked into that too much. Although I've focused mostly on just overstimulation and heart palpatations, I've also experienced a return of nausea and hypoglycemic symptoms. I also feel that my body has been in a weakened state since my problem with the amalgam a few months ago, but it's hard to describe exactly why I feel that way.
  4. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Something I forgot to mention. There was a period of a few weeks after I stopped the methylfolate and before I started taking B12 where I was really tired. I know the Prozac was working because not only was I not depressed, but I felt like I was stoned. I would just lie in bed all day and listen to music. It was great. I wish I could go back to feeling that way. Maybe not for the rest of my life, but at least for awhile until I regain some of my health back. I'm trying to include as much information is possible so I can sort through everything that's been going on recently and figure out what's happened.
  5. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    Lotus97:

    First of all, while may LLMDs would jump all over your symptoms and push Lyme's disease, and realizing that your rash could be due to other issues (even an autoimmune disease), the symptoms you listed don't necessarily imply Lyme's. You have not really described the nasty neurological symptoms that are the result of Lyme's. Most of what you describe can be metabolic or some other pathogen. I am not saying you don't have Lyme's but to be honest you have to work with a hypothesis and see it through. Right now you are talking Lyme's, mercury poisoning, adrenal fatigue, overmethylation, Sjorgen's, possible gut infections, etc. You need imho to to divide and conquer somehow.

    The depression you describe after being overstimulated is not unusual. If you overdrive things (methylation, NE pathways, etc.) then you get wired but tired. Pull out the over-stimulation and you get tired and depressed. It is a natural response. It means you are still out of balance but at least you aren't covering it up.

    Understand I took high dose vitamin C for years (8 g vitamin C) to better recycle glutathione but I think the main way I raised glutathione was adding supplements to improve ATP production since RIch Vank thought the main defect in glutathione production for me was the glutamate+cysteine ligation. I do much better on 3 grams of sodium ascorbate as per Adreno's suggestion (of course we will see in six months what my glutathione levels are, but clinically I am better).

    Folic acid does not necessarily block methyfolate. That is not correct. For some there is maybe an issue based on their gut integrity and their genetics but some of us (myself included) will still process folic acid. It is people with the C667t mutation that have to worry and mostly the homozygotes (people put way too much weight on certain heterozygote mutations because they don't understand genetics, sorry).

    I understand you had certain symptoms erupt when the amalgam was removed and that can be a problem. But it sounds like you made other changes. So it sounds again like you need to do some careful experiments to decide which is more of the culprit. You can't blame something for a long time for the overstimulation, remove the overstimulation by some other means and then go back to blaming the original thing for your newer symptoms.

    I would strongly advise writing down everything you take every day for the foreseeable future and take careful notes of how you feel. Then do controlled experiments. Don't add or change three things at once. You will have no clue what is doing what. Also give time for things to occur.

    At least that is my two cents. Good luck!
  6. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I'm definitely questioning how serious the mercury issue is since right after my amalgam was removed I first experienced effects from the Clindamycin and then the methylfolate. My health actually had been declining a few months prior to that so the other things besides the amalgam could have pushed me over the edge. However, I was partially going on the assumption that the troubles with the methylation and the amalgam were related. Someone in this thread suggested (though I don't think they actually were recommending this) that I could take a large dose of Alpha Lipoic Acid and see what happens. I'm not sure I'm ready to do that yet. With the Lyme Disease though I don't understand what else the rash could be since it happened 2 1/2 years apart, looked exactly the same both times, and occurred where I was bitten by a tick. Although my health has declined gradually over the past 17 years since my tick bite, within 2-3 years of being bitten I was already having trouble attending school or working. I've never had a full time job and the last part time job was 10 years ago. The Sjorgren's I mentioned only because I think Lyme caused it or at least mimics the symptoms and the Lyme could also be responsible for adrenal problems. I think you're right that I need to do more research on Lyme. I'm not sure about the gut infection or whether the depression is from the probiotics or something else. I want to hold off as long as possible before I change my antidepressants around. I'm really trying to not make too many changes at once. Up until summer 2012 I was making a slow, but gradual recovery. Although I was taking a lot of supplements during that period including many for ATP, Glutathione, Mitochondria, adrenals (mostly adaptogens) and immune system I believe that getting a lot of sleep (10+ hours a night) and limiting my activities (staying in bed for most of the day) made a big difference. That definitely points to possible adrenal problems and my cortisol tests before the recovery also point to that, but I think there is more going on than just that, but I'm going to have be patient and let things unfold slowly. I was reading Rich's posts about Lyme and methylation and it seems like if I do have Lyme then methylation could be part of the healing process.
  7. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    Sounds like a plan.

    But I think if you really have Lyme's (which is possible), methylation will not make a significant inroad imo. Sorry but I disagree with Rich Vank on this. The same is true for autoimmune diseases. Yes glutathione is important but it is not a panacea. Have you ever had your glutathione levels measured (RBCs?) or done some sort of methylation panel test? Just curious.
  8. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I know methylation is not a cureall, but it sounds like it can be helpful. I think what Rich was saying about methylation and Lyme is that restoring Glutathione is important for the immune system. Right now I'm just focusing on my immune system because killing off the Lyme can release a lot of toxins into the body which can be counterproductive. And the antibiotics will kill the probiotics which will cause other problems. I've been coming across information about how there's a relationship between Lyme and mercury so I plan to explore that further.
  9. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    I used to question a lot of what Cutler says, but am now convinced he's correct. The last time I felt like I was feeling 'better', was when I did about six weeks of ALA chelation, per his protocol. That was four years ago. Wish I had kept it up, but will now try again. Hopefully it's not too late. I don't say that to be a drama queen, but just because I'm so much worse off than I was four years ago.

    Thanks for posting your story Sam. Would love to hear if you're doing better...
  10. Johnmac

    Johnmac

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    You'll probably steadily improve if you chelate Cutler style. Most do. It's slow compared to most things (except watching grass grow) but the benefits are concrete & permanent.

    Cutler chelation & methylation are highly complementary IMO.

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