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Mercury poisoning & enteroviruses

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Sinclair, Feb 5, 2015.

  1. Sinclair

    Sinclair Senior Member

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    Hello,

    I am interested in gathering information or experiences regarding the link between these two areas of inquiry, and I found the paper below, a mice experiment reported in 2012 that suggests, if I am not wrong, that severity of enteroviruses infections might increase when mercury overload is already present in the body, but not so when mercury is added after the enterovirus infection.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21984480

    Could any generous mind give me any insight or report any experience on it?

    Thanks!
     
  2. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    It looks like they found an increase in IL-17 levels when the Hg was present before infection. IL-17 seems to be a pretty potent inducer of tissue damage from what I recall.

    Unfortunately I can't add much more as my heavy metal tests came back negative for Hg very soon after getting sick.
     
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  3. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

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  4. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    Just keep in mind that your hair and urine tests for mercury can be low because you excrete it poorly so it could paradoxically indicate high levels in tissues that matter like brain and other organs.
     
  5. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    It was a blood panel, but I suppose the possibility could always be there.
     
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  6. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

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    Thank you for posting this.
    This was so in my case: I did chelations, but the chelation test showed no mercury, and thought: Where is all my amalgame?:cat: Did I excrete so well, but why am I ill?:ill:

    After starting methylation, I began to release metal, but most mercury is released since treating candida.
     
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  7. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    According to Dr Cutler, a blood test is elevated only in acute poisoning and totally useless after that.
     
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  8. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

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    Yep, the hair test (if carefully interpreted) is what tells you the probability of your mercury load.

    Once you are past the exposure stage, the mercury you have taken in has either been excreted or has lodged in organs & brain. That's why blood & urine tests are of no use after the exposure stage - the mercury is your body is no longer in the blood or urine in any quantity.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
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  9. David Hammond

    David Hammond

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    Mercury depletes selenium which is necessary for glutathione peroxidase (an important antioxidant) which inhibits viral infections. Mercury poisoned mice infected with Coxsackie B3 virus had 50% more inflammation of the heart wall than controls and gamma interferon levels that were twice as high.

    Selenium deficiency and concurrent Coxsackie B infection was responsible for a number of outbreaks of Keshan disease ( a cardiomyopathy) in northeastern China.

    Ilbäck, N. G., Wesslén, L., Fohlman, J., & Friman, G. (1996). Effects of methyl mercury on cytokines, inflammation and virus clearance in a common infection (coxsackie B3 myocarditis). Toxicology letters, 89(1), 19-28.
     
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  10. melamine

    melamine Senior Member

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    @Sinclair - My experience may support the theory. I tested high for mercury by DMPS, having an extensive history of exposure to dental mercury. Testing showed chronic-elevated titers for all coxsacki Bs (borderline B4). I experienced two very bad infections many years post-original infection, at least one of which appeared to one doctor to be enteroviral. The three worst infections in my life were unusual in presentation and range of symptoms, and each of them caused permanent damage.
     
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  11. David Hammond

    David Hammond

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    @melamine - Have you done any chelation for mercury since testing with DMPS?
     
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  12. melamine

    melamine Senior Member

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    @David Hammond - I was referred from the doctor who did the testing to another one who prescribed a course of oral chelation. I learned later that it should not have been prescribed while I still had 2 mercury fillings. Although I felt neither better nor worse during or afterward, I became very ill a few months later with a severe flu-like(+) infection that was a big factor in advancing illness. It was not the first of its kind in its unusualness and post-chronicity, and there was an intervening immune function challenge vaccine about a week or so before the start of the infection. For those reasons I would not say there was a clear cause and effect, just one more insult.

    Extensive dental revision to remove mercury, root canals, etc., and to do restorations required major planning and mucho $ and was delayed until a couple years ago. It is still not finished but enough that I am able to start experimenting with therapies, for which information on PR has been a major help in sorting through it all. I am trying to read and absorb as much as possible here and elsewhere.

    According to some of the recommendations and from personal experience, I should probably be trying to improve methylation first, or at most adding only the mildest kinds of chelators, such as the Kyolic detox formula I am currently using. I have started experimenting with the B12s and folate + K and ALC fumerate. I think these things will keep me busy for awhile since there appears to be no standard dosing or schedule.

    I plan on doing another course of Lufenuron soon for Candida, but would like to be more prepared for any potential release of mercury in the gut this time, even though I don't recall any telltale symptoms the last time I used it. I order mine from Vaughter Wellness, in Europe, which is the most economical source.

    I have also begun using my FIR sauna on a regular basis. At first it made me feel sicker and I stopped using if for a long time, but I have found a routine that is not too intense and seems to agree with me. At bedtime I have started using clay or sometimes charcoal.

    Barring any major setbacks, which are unpredictable, I would like to eventually try a stronger chelator, possibly frequent dose ALA/DMSA, but not anytime soon and whatever I settle on will need to be not too complicated.
     
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  13. melamine

    melamine Senior Member

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  14. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    ?@david Hammond, what do you think of shade's quicksilver test?
     
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  15. David Hammond

    David Hammond

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    @aquariusgirl Dr Shade's test could be useful as it may indicate whether organic or inorganic mercury is more of an issue for you. Alpha lipoic acid only chelates inorganic mercury, while DMPS and DMSA chelate both forms. The test is quite expensive and like other forms of testing does not tell you how much mercury is sequestered inside the cells of the body - low levels of mercury in the blood and urine does not necessarily mean you do not have significant amounts of intracellular mercury.

    The definitive test is a trial of low dose chelation - if your symptoms are exacerbated or improved it is confirmation that mercury is responsible for your symptoms.
     
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  16. David Hammond

    David Hammond

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    @melamine If you aren't already taking them, zinc (100 mg/day) and selenium ( 200 to 400 mcg/day) may be helpful as mercury depletes both of these elements.
     
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  17. liverock

    liverock Senior Member

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    Mercury levels where found to be 22,000 times higher than controls in Idiopathic Dilated Cardiomyopathy heart tissue tests in this University of Rome study. Other amalgam trace elements such as silver and antimony where also shown to be highly elevated compared with controls.

    http://mercuryexposure.info/wordpre...ents_in_idiopathic_dilated_cardiomyopathy.pdf

     
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  18. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    There is some discussion on the findings of this coxsackievirus B myocarditis study here.

    As you have stated, the study found that the level of mercury in your body at the time you caught the coxsackievirus B infection has an effect on how severe the subsequent chronic coxsackievirus B autoimmune myocarditis gets; but any further exposure to inorganic mercury during the chronic stage of infection was not found to worsen the myocarditis.

    I am thinking this result perhaps suggests that reducing mercury levels in the chronic stage of infection (as ME/CFS is in) might not have any benefits in terms of quelling the infection.


    The study authors also said that:
    So these high levels of mercury in the heart muscle appear to be a consequence of the assumed persistent viral infection taking place in the heart in IDCM, rather than the cause of the persistent viral infection. Although the authors do say that "the extremely high values of Hg and Sb found in our patients with IDCM makes it unlikely that there would be no adverse effect".

    But bear in mind that the study on coxsackievirus B myocarditis found that further exposure to inorganic mercury in the chronic stage of infection does not worsen the myocarditis. So as the chronic heart muscle infection induces a build-up of mercury in the heart, this might not worsen the infection.

    There are several other studies that show coxsackievirus B infections redistribute mercury and other trace elements in the body:
    Altered distribution of heavy metals and lipids in coxsackievirus B3 infected mice
    New aspects of murine coxsackie B3 myocarditis--focus on heavy metals
    Selenium and mercury are redistributed to the brain during viral infection in mice

    This study also found a redistribution of trace elements in coxsackievirus B infection:
    So selenium was found to inhibit viral replication in coxsackievirus B infections. More info on the antiviral effect of selenium in this thread: High Dose Selenium Significantly Improves My Fatigue and Brain Fog.



    Note that idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy (IDCM) is sometimes seen to arise after coxsackievirus B myocarditis.

    Profs Steven Tracy and Nora Chapman have proposed that studying the chronic non-cytolytic enterovirus infections of coxsackievirus B myocarditis will likely provide insight into the chronic non-cytolytic enterovirus infections found in ME/CFS patients.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
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  19. Sinclair

    Sinclair Senior Member

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    Many thanks for your replies.

    I recently confirmed enterovirus chronic infection (CVB2, CVB4, Echo 30), plus CMV and CPN, and for 6 months I have followed anti-enterovirus therapy with noticeable improvements (Equilibrant, Isoprinosine), recently starting on Epivir.

    My hair test shows 2.8 in Mercury (moderate high) and high Arsenic too. I have had a couple of ammalgams for 20 years and plan to visit a biological dentist in a few weeks. I was very hopeful when I discovered heavy metal toxicity as a likely path for recovery. However the ME/CFS doctor I visited is not a believer in it (he recalled a patient that after chelation had lost 25% right kidney function, with no improvements in ME/CFS symptoms) and I suspect my liver may be too weak for chelation. However, I have not discarded this and @David Hammond 's book has been a good incentive to keep the faith in this path, that it may work if I don't get further improvement with the anti-enteroviral approach.

    I suspect SNPs too in my case, since I tested high for homocysteine and I have had good response to active B12 methylation + folinic acid support. Sadly I have not been able to test for SNPs yet.

    The only thing I have been partially able to discard is Pyroluria, for which I am only borderline.

    So, at this point, where I am suffering -due to a weak liver amongst others- of side effects of Epivir as phase III anti-enterovirus therapy, I would strongly appreciate your feedback on the following:

    1. Any tip for liver protection/treatment (beyond increased Selenium and milk thistle both of which have been of some help);

    2. Any reason that supports that ammalgam removal / chelation may be a worthwhile path to try in my specific case (what to watch for, regarding symptoms and response to supplements, for instance)....my hair test is not severe high for mercury or arsenic but just moderate high...is it worthwhile to try a provocation test? (my responses to Selenium, zinc and oxygenation and the progressive onset of my illness are other factors that attract my attention to this field too); and my bottom line is this: enterovirus infection + mercury poisoning + SNPs is a perfect storm that could explain my ME/CFS.

    Much appreciated.

    S.
     
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  20. David Hammond

    David Hammond

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    @Sinclair Mercury may be responsible for your inverted CD4/CD8 ratio. The following study was done on workers in a mercury producing plant. These are not the best subjects for these studies as they are probably good excretors - otherwise they would get sick shortly after starting their job (as I did) and leave.


    1 You might like to try artichoke (instead of or in addition to) to see if you helps your liver more than milk thistle. Ox bile may also help. I find 500 mg causes a burning sensation in my stomach so I only take one third of a capsule.

    2 My hair test showed only moderate levels of mercury (it was 30 years after I was poisoned)- hair tests only show how much your body is excreting - not the amount in your cells. The most reliable test is a trial of frequent low dose chelation. It sounds like you are pretty sick so you could start with doses as low as 1mg DMPS every 6 hours or 1 mg lipoic acid every 3 hours and see if your symptoms are exacerbated or improved. Either reaction is confirmation that mercury is at least partly responsible for your symptoms. I would never advise taking large doses of chelators for provocation tests - some people have a severe reaction which takes many months to recover from.

    Do you have a problem with high thiol foods? This is also very common in mercury poisoning. You could try excluding them for a couple of weeks to see how you feel.

    What were your responses to zinc and selenium?

    Dave.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2015
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