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Mental Illness Or Methylation Mutation?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by arx, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    Edegem, Belgium
    @ arx

    you can skip the supplements for 10 days and try the test. It will be less expensive than a SNP test.
  2. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

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    northern Maine
    Funny how if a person can't stop taking drugs the doctor didn't order, they are an "addict", and are "morally defective", but for drugs ordered by a doctor, they have a "disease" called "discontinuation syndrome".

    I'm grateful that I can't tolerate most drugs for more than a short period of time, otherwise I'd probably be having that "discontinuation syndrome" as well.
  3. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    I don't think 10 days are enough... But I agree, the SNP tests are really expensive!!
  4. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    Well, you can always ask the lab if it is enough.
  5. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Marlène
    Have you got SNP testing done? I remember you having done a methylation panel.
  6. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    Edegem, Belgium
    No I haven't, budget is becoming tight. With the B12 experiments of last months and results of methylation I have a pretty good indication however.
  7. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Yeah, I remember your test, it was pretty good! You got it done from Netherlands,right?
  8. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    I also wondered if the lab reference levels are trustworthy(something wondered a lot with B12). But in any case, the test was indicative and a class apart from the usual tests..
  9. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Bumpity Bump...

    Thanks Arx for posting this excellent article; just ran across it today. --- Thank you @caledonia for bringing this to my attention.

    Wayne
  10. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    As far as I can tell, the mood and personality effects most have are due to some very specific damage in the limbic system from low AdoCbl and/or LCF and when there is ATP startup in the limbic system there is also dopamine and other neurotransmitters produced with the damaged neurons activating. If it has anything to do with methylation it was that the methylation was the deadlock on the ATP/enzyme production and usage. The B12 deficiencies cause all sorts of mood and personality disorders up to and including "megaloblastic madness, the most florid psychosis known to man". B12 deficiencies cause multisensory hallucinations, alterations of all senses and so on. The exact responses depend on the exact damage, just as SACD, MS, ALS, Parkinson's and so on are all variations on that deficiency damage and all of the mood and personality alterations that go with them Recovering from this damage is difficult and extremely uncomfortable but some of it can heal after the biochemical functioning returns.
    taniaaust1 and cph13 like this.
  11. cph13

    cph13 Senior Member

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    Freddd,
    TU for all U do...I just, my body....trial and error....well, U know, it's difficult but
    T H A N K S a billion times..Someday I and my body will GET IT. for now ...??????? we just WONDER Hugs Freddd hope U'r feet R still happy xo C
  12. Azrael

    Azrael

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    Was wondering, your father did he have positive or negative symptoms of schizophrenia?

    If you know:

    Is the MTHFR gene only affecting the one or the other?

    I might answer this myself now, from what I know methyl folate in it's pathway raises dopamine. So I guess that he would not have positive symptoms of schizophrenia because that would mean he already have too high dopamine.
  13. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

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    Carl Pfeiffer, one of the authors referenced by Ben Lynch, has been onto this for decades. Luckily with nutrigenomics being a new science, this theory is getting renewed traction. I purchased the work cited in 1979 (!) One can also find "The Schizophrenias" as a scanned pdf online somewhere (it's about loads more than schizophrenia) and it explains very thoroughly the nutritional causes of so many "psychological" Dx.
    Wayne and Snowdrop like this.
  14. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Sth Australia
    sorry Im confused by the "positive" "negative" symptom thing in your question.

    He suffers from paranoia (thinking people are hunting him and want to kill him etc) and delusions (obsessions with numbers and thinking he knows the maths formula to win at pokies) and halluncinations eg seeing cameras coming out of peoples eyes... if he doesnt take the schizophrenia meds. He was so crazy at one point that he was scarying people including me (I was sleeping with an axe under my bed in case my father broke in to attack me and my children who were young at the time, as I couldnt trust that he wouldnt think I was part of a plot to kill him, he went suspicious of family members including myself).

    They've actually after first diagnosing schizophrenia and doctors saying that for many years, nowdays saying they dont think he has that but something else unknown to them causing his mental health issue (thou he has the symptoms Ive said above which are schizophrenia symptoms). Im fairly sure his issue is somehow linked to the MTHFR (as Ive read that can cause schizophrenia).

    I wish he'd get tested and treated for MTHFR if he has a double copy of it too as I suspect.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
  15. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi Leela, thanks for posting this information. I did some searching, and found a link to this free online publication:

    The Schizophrenias --- Ours to Conquer
    by Carl Pfeiffer


    The website Orthomolecular.org has several other free online books you can access; at first glance, some of them sound pretty fascinating.
  16. Azrael

    Azrael

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    That sounds terrible:(

    Then I understand your situation better, that's all positive symptoms of schizophrenia and means he most probably have too much dopamine in his brain. Why he has that is another question. He could be too low on histamine causing the high dopamine or it could involve other neurotransmitters like glutamate or glycine.

    Best thing would be to make a broad sng test and work from there. I do hope things get better for your father, I have suffered alot myself so I can feel with others with mental problems.

    What I do know is that dopamine is a catecholomine and active b3 (niacineamide) processes cats faster meaning it would decrease, that also goes for a supplement called BCAA.

    But there could be many other factors playing in and just taking catecholomine lowering supplements will not be the only step. He would need methyldonators (brain nutrition) at the correct pathways along with antioxidants taken together with any dopamine lowering vitamins.

    I also heard NAC - n-acetyl-cystein could be a good supplement for schizophrenia.

    Also doing a test for his homocystein levels could be a good idea. NAC affects homocystein by lowering it so that's why I suggested such a test could be wise.

    Need to go now, that's all I could think of for the moment
  17. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    If MTHFR increased the incidence of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder directly, then there would be a statistically significant correlation between the countries with the highest per capita rates of MTHFR (Mexico and Italy, for example) and mental illness. Does any one know if this is true?
  18. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

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    I'm not sure it's that MTHFR increases the incidence of schizophrenia so much as where there is a schizoid manifestation, there is a likelihood you will find MTHFR mutation.
  19. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    That's sort of the same thing. If people with schizophrenia tend to have MTHFR, then certain countries should have a higher incidence - if there is a direct relationship.

    This may exist. During times of famine pregnant women triple the likelihood of having a child with this. It is theorized that the fetus has been deprived of folate.

    I had decades of Bipolar which resolved when I dealt with mercury. This interface between toxins and methylation provides an indirect means by which MTHFR could increase rates.
    Interesting ideas. brad
    Johnmac and taniaaust1 like this.
  20. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    I would like to discuss this matter of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. If we jump into our way-back machine and read up on the studies of liver extract concentrate, before b12 was misidentified for a Nobel Prize, we will see some never duplicated results. Based on what I read in historical articles, back in the 70s, the studies carried out were done in the mental institutions just as earlier studies for b-vitamin deficiencies were done. Women hospitalized for post partum depression (that is severe) were able to be sent home in a single day after administration. Schizophrenics were able to be sent home after three days of treatment with the extract.

    Then there were two shoes to the disaster. First Thorazine and another major antipsychotic drug were invented. Then the sanctified by Nobel prize Cyanocobalamin totally failed to replicate the results of the liver extract in many studies besides high MCV.

    I know of several people hospitalized who were quite hallucinatory and whatever else is required for hospitalization who have had a family member feed them, MeCbl and AdoCbl who have had the hallucinations stop within 48 hours and released within a couple of more days..

    I and many with B12 CNS deficiency symptoms have had multisensory hallucinations, potentially including every sense, that are basically noise in the circuit, like static or digital scramble on the TV. I could smell the clam flats in my basement changing suddenly to hot linen and other less pleasant things. My sense of taste was similarly afflicted as was my hearing. So if I were so inclined I could have made it into anything. I made it into meaningless noise that pointed to areas of damage of some sort. They all healed. I could once again taste strawberries, odors were normal, not changed and strengthened in weird ways and completely random at times. The visual and auditory hallucinations went away. Some changed in days, some specific things took months.

    Also, during healing for me and others, which was running many symptoms in reverse, volatile emotional changes were common.

    The thing is the deadlock quartet, as well as containing the real human active cobalamins, carnitine, and human active folate, l-methylfolate and it does appear to replicate the entire spectrum of effects of the concentrated liver extract. Good luck.
    Johnmac and ahmo like this.

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