Mental Fatigue CFS

[Fogbuster]

Hi @justy,

Your breathing pattern sounds precisely like mine. Acute hyperventilation (breathing really fast/asthma attack esq) is what we all think of as hyperventilating, that's why originally I thought it had nothing to do with me as I take large gasping breaths.

To clear up any confusion, what I and many sufferers are doing is "overbreathing". Taking in too much oxygen, so therefore getting rid of too much CO2 which as a result cuts off the blood supply to your brain by up to 50%.

So I'm breathing in the same amount of oxygen when sitting down as someone would be when going for a pacy walk in the woods.

Here are my 7 principles of good breathing:

1. Use diaphragm not upper chest
2. Think about the size of the breath. Aim for small not large, slightly less than you feel you need. (80% of normal breath intake).
3. Think about the speed of the breath, aim for slow not fast, slightly slower breaths than you feel you need.
4. Do not force air out, on the out breath, let it relax out.
5.Breathe in and out through nose not mouth.
6. Breathe silently and gently.
7. Do not tighten jaw or clench teeth.


1. Make sure your lying/sitting comfortably and muscles are relaxed.

2. Breathe in 80% of normal breathe (slightly slower than usual speed)

3. Gently (without force) breathe out your nostrils on the exhale and pause momentarily at the end of the outbreath before you breathe in again.


It will be slightly uncomfortable at first as your trying to simply breathe less. So your body will try and make you breathe how you do normally, so you will feel some resistance, basically a feeling/need to take in more breathe.

So if you feel resistance (desire to take in more breathe) your doing it effectively.

Don't worry if you dont get it right straight away, it took me a few days to get the hang of it.

A useful tip I have found is swallowing when the desire to breathe is great.

Be aware of..

Sighing
Yawning
Coughing
Sniffing
Clearing throat

after exercises, as this is another way your body's trying to get rid of the CO2, which its not used to, so if this happens try your best to swallow to help push the CO2 back down where it belongs!

Hope this is clear enough.
Again, any more questions fire away!

Best wishes
Jamie

 

[justy]

Hi Fogbuster, despite scoring highly on the quiz, I am still not sure, I don't take large breaths, in fact I breathe very slowly and not deeply at all - is that what yu mean. I don't take large breaths or gulping at all. Very steady and slow. Sorry going off topic. will PM you if the conversation gets going about this further.

Cheers!
Justy.

 

[AndyPandy]

Thanks for your good wishes Jamie. I had been reading about the influence of various diets on PR and decided to make some changes. After eliminating grains and fructose and identified allergies, I was feeling pretty weak. I had previously been relying on fruit and grains for many of my carbs.

I went to a dietician for advice on maintaining a nutritious diet while eliminating foods. My dietary situation is complicated because I am a skinny type 2 diabetic since 1997. I am on metformin as I can no longer manage my diabetes with diet and I can't exercise. The metformin alone doesn't control my diabetes and I have to manage carbs carefully. If I don't get enough carbs I feel awful physically and mentally. Too many and my sugar levels are too high.

The dietician recommended cutting out naturally occurring food chemicals - salicylates, amines and glutamates. She also recommended cutting out artificial food chemicals. She said that in her experience food chemicals can be a problem for people with CFS. I don't know how much experience she has. She said that my life long sensitivities to chemicals and medications (worse since CFS) are also a clue to likely problems with food chemicals and salicylates in particular. She also reviewed my food and symptom diary.

The improvement in my mood, fogginess and drugged feeling and appearance came within a few days of reducing salicylates. It may be due to the effects of eliminating the other problem foods but I doubt it. I now realise that although I thought I was eating healthily, I was eating a truckload of high and very high salicylate foods, many of which I craved daily. I am now eating only salicylate free or low salicylate foods with occasional moderate ones. I plan to cut them out altogether over time rather than go cold turkey. I will tackle amines and glutamates later. I intend to keep the grain free, fructose free, allergen free diet going long term.

There is a fair bit of information on the net about food chemicals and elimination diets. The RPAH Handbook is widely used in Australia as a guide to eliminating food chemicals.

Good luck with your low salicylate diet.

 

[Snowdrop]

Thanks for your good wishes Jamie. I had been reading about the influence of various diets on PR and decided to make some changes. After eliminating grains and fructose and identified allergies, I was feeling pretty weak. I had previously been relying on fruit and grains for many of my carbs.

I went to a dietician for advice on maintaining a nutritious diet while eliminating foods. My dietary situation is complicated because I am a skinny type 2 diabetic since 1997. I am on metformin as I can no longer manage my diabetes with diet and I can't exercise. The metformin alone doesn't control my diabetes and I have to manage carbs carefully. If I don't get enough carbs I feel awful physically and mentally. Too many and my sugar levels are too high.

The dietician recommended cutting out naturally occurring food chemicals - salicylates, amines and glutamates. She also recommended cutting out artificial food chemicals. She said that in her experience food chemicals can be a problem for people with CFS. I don't know how much experience she has. She said that my life long sensitivities to chemicals and medications (worse since CFS) are also a clue to likely problems with food chemicals and salicylates in particular. She also reviewed my food and symptom diary.

The improvement in my mood, fogginess and drugged feeling and appearance came within a few days of reducing salicylates. It may be due to the effects of eliminating the other problem foods but I doubt it. I now realise that although I thought I was eating healthily, I was eating a truckload of high and very high salicylate foods, many of which I craved daily. I am now eating only salicylate free or low salicylate foods with occasional moderate ones. I plan to cut them out altogether over time rather than go cold turkey. I will tackle amines and glutamates later. I intend to keep the grain free, fructose free, allergen free diet going long term.

There is a fair bit of information on the net about food chemicals and elimination diets. The RPAH Handbook is widely used in Australia as a guide to eliminating food chemicals.

Good luck with your low salicylate diet.

Hi AndyPandy

I have recently gone gluten free and have discovered some benefit. I am thinking of trying to remove salicylates.
My question is if I may ask, how have you handled the removal of these additional foods?

Did you find substitutes you previously didn't eat? Do you eat more of what's left in your diet?

I think I entirely lack imagination as to what to do.
SD

 

[AndyPandy]

Hi Snowdrop.

Cutting out so many foods (grain free, fructose free, allergens - including dairy and soy - and salicylates) is a big challenge and something I am trying to come to grips with at the moment. There are various references on the net which will tell you what foods you can eat if you are eliminating or cutting back on salicylates. Identifying these was the first stage for me.

The second stage (a work in progress) is to come up with meals and snacks which fit within these parameters. I am using foods I was already eating, but also exploring new ones eg quinoa, chokos etc. I am also eating more allowed foods that I previously didn't eat very often. I preferred the tasty ones loaded with salicylates! I have recently discovered that I am allergic to yeast so this means exploring bread recipes on the net eg soda bread. Some experiments with recipes using these new ingredients have gone well, some not so well. It is trial and error.

The net is a great (and cheap) place to find new recipes and find out how you can cook certain ingredients. A research trip to the supermarket, local health food store and organic store may also help you to find products with allowed ingredients. I recommend that you read product labels carefully.

For me, the diet is very bland compared with what I have been eating, but this amounts to a small amount of discomfort if it reaps rewards. Initially, it is a lot of work to make dramatic dietary changes, but once you get the hang of it and have a number of ideas and recipes at your disposal it will be much easier.

Good luck and best wishes.

 

[Snowdrop]

Hi Snowdrop.

Cutting out so many foods (grain free, fructose free, allergens - including dairy and soy - and salicylates) is a big challenge and something I am trying to come to grips with at the moment. There are various references on the net which will tell you what foods you can eat if you are eliminating or cutting back on salicylates. Identifying these was the first stage for me.

The second stage (a work in progress) is to come up with meals and snacks which fit within these parameters. I am using foods I was already eating, but also exploring new ones eg quinoa, chokos etc. I am also eating more allowed foods that I previously didn't eat very often. I preferred the tasty ones loaded with salicylates! I have recently discovered that I am allergic to yeast so this means exploring bread recipes on the net eg soda bread. Some experiments with recipes using these new ingredients have gone well, some not so well. It is trial and error.

The net is a great (and cheap) place to find new recipes and find out how you can cook certain ingredients. A research trip to the supermarket, local health food store and organic store may also help you to find products with allowed ingredients. I recommend that you read product labels carefully.

For me, the diet is very bland compared with what I have been eating, but this amounts to a small amount of discomfort if it reaps rewards. Initially, it is a lot of work to make dramatic dietary changes, but once you get the hang of it and have a number of ideas and recipes at your disposal it will be much easier.

Good luck and best wishes.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I think I'll have to try eliminating by cutting back rather than full withdrawl.

I am mostly bedbound except a few hours a day and so rely on my husband to shop and cook. Loosing potatoes and tomatoes is going to be tough. But if it helps it will be worth it.
SD

 

[AndyPandy]

Hi Snowdrop

Sorry to hear that you are mostly bedbound. That is tough. I spent many months bedbound and I am grateful that I have improved to the point where I can now manage some cooking. I can't go shopping by myself. If I am well enough my husband takes me out in the wheelchair for "product research". Otherwise he calls me at home when he is out shopping and reads out the labels to me so I can decide whether a product is suitable or not. Regarding white potatoes, they seem to be classed as salicylate free on the lists I have looked at, but I think they might be nightshades? I haven't looked into that.

So far I continue to be fog free, calmer and happier. The change is remarkable.

 

[moblet]

do you have any links for the breathing exercises?

Here are some Buteyko resources, including instructions. After half an hour's practice I was able to almost completely cease taking asthma medication, which was kind of handy as my respiratory issues (which have since been found to be structurally/neurologically driven) were spiralling out of control at the time and the medication was only aggravating them.
http://members.westnet.com.au/pkolb/a&j.htm
http://www.cayce.egympie.com.au/buteyko.htm