Discussion in 'Adrenal Dysfunction' started by Athene, Oct 21, 2011.
I don't think this is very high
Nielk, have you had your thyroid tested? I've been reading about that, and it seems that there is quite a lot of overlap with low thyroid and low cortisol symptoms. Perhaps another thing to read up on?
I did get my thyroids checked and they are in the normal range.
Athene, that is why I take 1 g E/day. I read a book on sports nutrition by Dr. Michael Colgan and he said that Olympic athletes get sick after training so hard if they don't take very high dose antioxidants (he listed E at 1g for Olympic training). Exercise breaks down muscle fibers and the immune system is called into play to mop up dead and dying cells. Just like a sickness. Just like an allergy attack. I know my allergies are so bad they knock me right out and I am nonfunctional so I reasoned my body was mounting an 'Olympic sized' effort against allergens and I had to give it Olympic support. Originally I only meant the high dose for during allergy season but I never stopped and it has been 34 years and nothing bad happened to me (when I started the average nutritional person was taking 400-600 IU).
Just thought I'd mention it. I am still flattened at allergy season but my adrenal gland does not give out until after 3 weeks in (that is when my blood pressure goes low) and within a week after the season is over I recover without anything special so I think it's the E.
Nielk, I think if you have high cholesterol then you a priori have low thyroid. The thyrodi range is a joke. It is as wide as a barn door and has many, many sick people in it. The labs only take the top and bottom 5% out of the readings that they get in (readings of SICK people because well people don't get that tested so much). Look here at Life Extension...you want your TSH to be about 1.9 - if it is over 2 there are a lot of health problems atendant with that including elevated cholesterol:
A review of published findings about TSH levels reveals that readings over 2.0 may be indicative of adverse health problems relating to insufficient thyroid hormone output. One study showed that individuals with TSH values over 2.0 have an increased risk of developing overt hypothyroid disease over the next 20 years.16 Other studies show that TSH values over 1.9 indicate abnormal pathologies of the thyroid, specifically autoimmune attacks on the thyroid gland itself that can result in significant impairment.17
A more startling study showed that TSH values over 4.0 increase the prevalence of heart disease, after correcting other known risk factors.17 Another study showed that administration of thyroid hormone lowered cholesterol in patients with TSH ranges of 2.0-4.0 but had no effect in lowering cholesterol in patients whose TSH range was 0.2-1.9.18 It also showed that in people with elevated cholesterol, TSH values over 1.9 could indicate that a thyroid deficiency is the culprit, causing excess production of cholesterol, whereas TSH levels below 2.0 would indicate a normal thyroid hormone status.
There are 9 or more pages in that report - you can look up what CRP should be etc. I believe the main thing that lowers CRP is antioxidants. I take high dose antioxidants and my CRP is perfect. It can be done even with a ton of broken genes.
So here is the range for CRP from Life Extension:
0-3.0 mg/L standard ref range (the meaningless range)
Men: under 0.55 mg/L Women: under 1.5 mg/L
P.S. I keep getting low thyroid (and I feel like crap at 2.35 but I would have never suspected thyroid until I took Iodoral and got a reading of 6.0 so I had to read up on thyroid). I am now finding that I don't eat enough tyrosine (and I have some problem with it anyway because of not enough BH4). I am taking the following 2 products and they work instantly to banish the shakes I was getting from low thyroid:
The first helps thyroid hormone get into the cells, the second helps you make it to begin with. There is tyrosine in it (which may be all you need) but the formula I picked is for dieting and they find when you diet you also need phosphates to suport the thyroid and guggul lowers insulin. All told it stops the shakes for me in minutes flat.
I want to add that BiancaS seems to think that coleus (the first product listed above) helps the adrenal gland.
I should also add that the above products do not cover everything the thyroid needs, for it needs iron and mB12 and selenium also for instance. The reason I keep going low thyroid is due to low iron. So you have to figure out what your deficiencies are.
Congrats on your results Athene. I am wondering though since you mention allergies, if this recovery still holds true when you are fighting allergens? Because I recover too, but allergy season tanks me.
I cannot eat a high protein diet - I have more genes wrong than most people here - I probably should be on a diabetes forum because I have 3 genes that limit BH4 and so cant excrete ammonia very well (produced by eating meat). When I have severe low blood sugar problems I either eat next to nothing or I eat all the time...it really depends on what I am doing and how functional I need to be. Work sometimes calls for caffeine and sugar and more caffeien and more sugar...like eating next to nothing means no caffeine and often that won't do.
But I am finding a lot of my issues are undiagnosed low thyroid - a lot of shaking issues can be taken care of by helping the thyroid. See my post above to Nielk.
I looked up my latest TSH = 2.33 (0.40-4.50)
I figured right in the middle - perfect. Thank you for the Link to Life Extension. I will take my time to read through it.
You have a powerhouse of knowledge.
I appreciate it,
Me too. Thank you Rydra.
Wow! You guys put a tear in my eye. I try to help but sometimes it backfires on me. I am glad I was able to help here! It just burns me up sometime about what we have to go through to find out basic medical info our doctor's should have told us so I have a burning need to spare others what I have had to go through whenevr I can.
Take care, Rydra
A piece of the low cortisol puzzle. It turns out low iron causes low cortisol. http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Doi=177633. For me, correcting iron status corrects this. And now I read that tyrosine may prevent stress-related rises in cortisol: http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/reviews/tyrosine.htm
And this site says something interesting - that if you measure your temp for thyroid status and find that the temp itself is unstable - that indicates an adrenal problem: an unstable average temperature between successive days indicates low adrenals which will need supporting http://thyroid-rt3.com/adrenals.htm Rhodiola has helped my adrenals out in the past.
But iron is the most important one for me. Apparently it does not matter if you have a normal hemoglobin, it is the ferritin reading that counts and should be about 70.
Thanks for all this info Triffid, that is a lot for me to study.
Very interesting for me as I nearly always do have slightly low iron.
I'm also interested in the thyroid connection as I have just been measured with below normal thyroid too.
Athene, I LOVE your blog!
I confess, I do wear hipster jeans as I am low waisted and those high-waist jeans don't work for me. I wear my tops long though -- not hard to do since I am short! I do wear frumpy clothes intersperced with blitzes of style as my sisters try to keep me up with fashions-Ha! But I always throw away junk mail unread before it ever hits a horizontal surface and accumulates. I read once that half an hour in a tropical sun causes enough loss of folate to cause a miscarriage. I reasoned that the abaya came about to protect women of child-breaing age from miscarriage. In the U.S. there is more incidence of skin cancer in Florida than in the north, but that is not ncessarily true in S. America or elsewhere. If the Sicilian diet contains a lot of folate then skin cancer is not an issue. Of course, more melanin in the skin also protects against the sun so maybe there is something to that 'Sicilian skin'.
P.S. I always have low iron too, but it doesn't cause a thyroid problem if ferritin is at 40, it's only when it goes lower that it affects the thyroid for me.
Rhodiola does so many things that its benefit cannot be attributed to adrenal effects, particular when this is much less pronounced than its effects on neurotransmission, MAO and particular cholinesterase.
I think alot of the so called adaptogens may work like many antidepressants, that is effects neurotransmitters like noradrenaline, dopamine, serotonin as well as antioxidants and other nutrients etc.
True and many just contain steroids that provide short term relief from so many different issues. Rhodiola was something I was interested in for a long while. it helped with OI but made me crash after three days into Ank Spond.
Yes, interesting. I have been calling tyrosine my "happy pill" and also saying that Rhodiola has the same effect. I come to find out there is tyrosol, a form of tyrosine, in rhodiola, and both substances help you make dopamine, the happy neurotransmitter. Tyrosine also cuts appetite. )
Triffid. (P.S. Apparently this is well known - but why the heck no one ever tells you this is beyond me).
Interesting observation that you get the same effect. However tyrosol is quite different to tyrosine.
Tyrosol and hydroxytyrosol are potent antioxidants and as far as I was aware are actual metabolites of dopamine rather than precursors. Both are MAO inhibitors as are many constituents of Rhodiola. In Rhodiola these substances would have a greater effect on MAO inhibition and through capillory action and stimulation of endothelial nitric oxide than anything else. It also containts reasonable potent acetylcholinesterase inhibitors.
Perhaps the MAO effects increase the action of dopamine for you? i wonder about dopamine a lot since I crave caffeine every day for that 20 minute boost of dopamine before it wears off and im left with the adrenalin aftermath...
Im finding acetyl tyrosine helpful, a bit of a pepp pill.
I have checked the Adrenal Fatigue book and he doesn't mention Rhodiola at all, either in the list of adaptogens that are OK, or in the list of adrenal stimulants to avoid. I suppose that means Rhodiola must have an indirect effect on the adrenals, at best.
The websites I can find seem to describe it as an antidepressant and don't mention adrenals either.
I'm glad you're enjoying my blog, triffid! I'm adding a new post today...
No, you are right. Tyrosine makes my brain feel like it's been rubbed with Vicks Vaporub and rhodiola does not do that. But both are happy pills for me. Rhodiola makes me not care about stress so since stress is a big part of my life, that makes me very happy. Tyrosine just makes me happy for no reason that I can see at all. Thanks for all the info!
btw, choline and high dose (9g/day) omega-3 also make my brain feel like Vicks Vaporub has been applied. Now THOSE despite being quite different must affect dopamine production is some way? I have not felt those to be happy pills though. The omega-3 is the only way I know to naturally help with allergies (nettle works but it raises my insulin). It prevents production of LOX and other(?) fatty acid breakdown products that lead to inflammatory cytokines. So my poor brain must be getting bombed with inflammation when I have allergies.
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