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Mementadine

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Justin30, Mar 4, 2016.

  1. Justin30

    Justin30 Senior Member

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    Hi Everyone,

    Can any of you give me some feedback on Mementadine. What I hoping is to cut back on Clonezapam and try this one out since it works on NMDA receptors as does clonezapam.

    I clonezepam helped me with:

    - anxiety
    -dysphagia/globus
    -blurry vision
    -light and noise sensitivity
    -energy
    -and OI symptoms (POTS)

    It is not working as well anymore and wanted to mix it up to see if this will help. I think its causing rebound depression or something.....who knows.

    Can people please give me some feedback.

    Thanks,

    Justin
     
  2. Deltrus

    Deltrus Senior Member

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    WARNING: technical post.

    TLDR to answer your question: Memantine didn't help me, while clonazepam / phenibut do. Clonazepam lowers the excitation from many different sources, while memantine lowers excitation from a single source which may or may not be overactive.

    Clonazepam doesn't work on NMDA receptors. Clonazepam increases negatively charged chlorine ions entering into a cell, and NMDA antagonism prevents positively charged calcium from entering the cell.

    However, NMDA antagonists don't lower positive ions from other sources. For example, a lot of excitatory activity in CFS patients is because cell integrity is weak because ATP(energy) isn't always available as fuel for the ion pumps in the cells.

    For more info on that, check out here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanism_of_anoxic_depolarization_in_the_brain

    The less positively charged a cell is, the less excitable it is, and the less symptoms of anxiety, twitching, etc you will get. It takes a lot of energy to prime cells back to their original state after they fire, so the less excitable cells are, the less energy you will use. No depletion of energy = cell walls stay stable. You can see why depressants such as clonazepam are pretty good for some cfs patients.


    The question is whether the NMDA channel is a significant source of harmful excitatory activity in your brain.

    Personally memantine didn't work for me until 50 mg doses, but at that point the drug can have long term side effects. It started to give me thinking problems, which is totally not worth it. Since I needed high doses, that means that the NMDA receptor wasn't a significant source of excitation. How do I know this? Well memantine has a huge effect on very active NMDA receptors, but very little if the receptor isn't hugely stimulated. Since I didn't get a response from a small dose, that means my receptors aren't so stimulated. The more stimulated your NMDA receptors are, the more effective low doses of memantine are.

    Keep in mind people that memantine has like a 100 hour half life, so if you dose 20mg a few days in a row, you will get the effects of like 50 mg. You have to start at like 5 mg for this drug and work your way up.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2016
    Justin30 likes this.
  3. Deltrus

    Deltrus Senior Member

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    Actually, I think NAC sustain would be good for you, because NAC prevents glutamate release, which reduces activation of many receptors that receive glutamate, not just NMDA. Normal NAC doesn't last long enough in the blood stream, so the sustainable version is good. Also, big bursts of NAC depletes B12 which is really dangerous for CFSers.
     
  4. roller

    roller wiggle jiggle

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    only briefly. did do nothing.
     
  5. Justin30

    Justin30 Senior Member

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    Hi @Deltrus,

    I thought Dr Chenney stated that this drug worked as an NMDA antagonist. Yet did a ton of reading and it is just essentially a sedative working on Gaba receptors. Super confusing. I tried Gabapentin and may try this one again.

    Ok...Its funny you bring up NAC. I stoped taking this recently about two months ago along woth Mito support supps such as creatine and D Ribose. I know NAC to be precuser to glutathion. And now after reading that wikepedia link now it makes sense why I have been feeling worse.

    I will split up the dose of NAC and will order that yarrow formula later to try out.

    I remember you mentioning phenubit in another post and wondered if you can take it with clonozepam? I also remeber you saying that it cant be takin all the time.

    I have been experimenting with high levels of Magnesium in all 3 forms:

    Mag Glycinate
    Mag Malate
    Mag Citrate

    I am finding clonezapam is losing its effectiveness and am having to increase the dose. I dont want to go far past where I am now but have been in a relapse for 3 months. Very frustrating. More like push crash push crash push then reallllllly crash. I cant seem to get a hold of it.

    I do hydroxycobalamin injections daily so I am no to concerned about the depletion. Thank you for the input...this makes a ton of sense now....mitochondrial issues leading to good old brain issues......

    I have had some pretty bad GI issues as of late and stoped Betain HCL and Ultrazyme digestive enzymes. The gut issues were making me want to use those supplements I have switched to enteric coated peppermint oil and it has helped with the food sensitivities.

    Thanks,

    Justin
     
  6. Deltrus

    Deltrus Senior Member

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    Personally I save phenibut for when my symptoms are triggered super badly, and I need help out of that terrible cycle. I don't think you should combine these drugs, or use them more than you have to, because you aren't just limitting excitatory activity that is bad, you are limitting the good stuff too. That can lower intelligence.

    As an analogy, it is like having a loud classroom with people fooling around and some people talking about class material. Then you tell the entire class to shut up and you now don't even have the good students talking to each other.

    It is better to limit inflammation and energy depletion, saving the "telling the whole class to shut up" for when things get out of hand.

    The best way to do that would be to fix deficiencies and problems with metabolism, increase intracellular antioxidants, help the immune system to take down viruses, fix the gut, fix muscle knots and imbalances, improve brain blood flow etc. Anything you can do to to lower useless energy consumption, increase cell integrity, keep the atp levels up. The goal should be to prevent your brain from getting into that cycle of excitation that happens when it runs out of energy.

    Also keep in mind that while clonazepam inhibits cells from firing excessively, your body still has to pump that Cl that it pushes into the neurons back out. So ideally you get out of the excitatory cycle and don't go too far past that.

    Just a reminder, the excitatory cycle is low atp/too much excitation -> neurons fire and create a greater demand than the energy levels can sustain -> even more excitation and energy usage. Evetually your cells are really struggling to get primed again, so you get brainfog and fatigue in addition to the energy / excitation malfunctioning.

    You need just enough clonazepam to bring the excitation level to something your brain can sustain. Not more. Doing this will also slow tolerance.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2016
  7. Justin30

    Justin30 Senior Member

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    Thanks, this is starting to come together for me.

    I will be starting a protocol for my gut on Monday most likely. I have all the meds.

    I supposedly have way to high toxicity in my blood. LPS. Dysbiosis.

    I do not have co infections, lyme, mycoplasma, babesia, etc

    My herpes viruses based on testing are inactive.

    My macophages were low as well as IGA.

    I would like to get coaxies B virus testing and more of a comprehensive EBV panel done but in Canada. They dont do IGG Titters.

    Thanks for the info.
     
  8. Justin30

    Justin30 Senior Member

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    @Deltrus may I ask, do you have POTS or another form of Dyautonomia?

    Any recommendations on increasing blood flow to the brain other than Ginko? I have some vinocetine laying around but because of the POTS am a bit hesitant totry it.

    CLONEZEPAM has been helping with this and I think is part of the reason I am increasing the dose. I will be trying florinef as Licprice root did very little to help as did saline.

    Thanks Justin
     
  9. Deltrus

    Deltrus Senior Member

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    Walking for a bit once a day is best for blood flow to the brain.

    I've also been doing these neck stretches where you fully exhale, and stretch with your arms like you are just waking up, and also try to stretch out your neck like thiis as well. Stretches while fully exhaled seem to really loosen the upper chest muscles that are hidden behind the rib cage, and improves blood flow. Of course lots of other stretches work just I never new about the effect of the diaphram on stretching for so long. This is just this week's fad for me..

    For dysautomnia, I have blurry vision, constipation, sweating. I have orthostatic hypertension but only very light and only after inactivity.

    Vinpocetine is one of the few drugs I haven't tried. No comment on it.

    I'm not an expert at all for POTS.
     
  10. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Magnesium threonate is a much more effective NMDA antagonist than other forms of magnesium, and has worked well for me. Plain old taurine might also help.

    I've tried memantine, but it caused me thinking problems, as another poster also mentioned. This was at 5mg only.
     

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