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Leptin
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Melatonin

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by arx, Jun 19, 2012.

  1. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    I am considering to take melatonin for my insomnia troubles.I am currently following an active b12 protocol, which interferes with sleep. I am from India, and it's not that easy to find and order stuff here. I need some suggestions, on how much melatonin I should take(I see products varied from 300mcg to 5mg!), which brand and whether time released or regular. If you have any experience with melatonin that would help me, please share.

    Thanks!
  2. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    I am sensitive to supplements and drugs, and 300 mcg has affect on me. If I took it many times, I would probably need to increase. If you aren't sensitive, you would probably want to start with 1 mg and raise to 3 mg or more if it's not powerful enough. I think it is more useful in resetting a schedule instead of putting someone to sleep.
  3. Sparrow

    Sparrow Senior Member

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    I've had excellent results from Douglas Laboratories 3mg sublingual melatonin. One pill puts me out like a light within 15 min of putting it in my mouth, pretty much every single night. Other brands of melatonin have done next to nothing for me, even at much higher doses, so I will never go back. :) My husband has insomnia too, and had the same experience. I don't know what the difference is with their tiny pills, but it's like a whole different thing than any other one I've tried. Oddly, it's also hugely more effective than three of their 1mg pills put together (we ran out once and had to substitute). Maybe it's that there isn't a lot of extra "stuff" (flavouring, etc.) to interfere? Not sure. They're great, though. Can't say enough good things about these.

    I would suggest starting with a dose around there and seeing how it goes. It's probably best to use the lowest dose that's effective for you anyway. Good luck!
    L'engle likes this.
  4. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Not much is ever mentioned about melatonins antioxidant ability, it helps very little for my sleep ie doesnt put me to sleep but helps more body clock issues i guess, but i mainly use it for its antioxidant ability especially in the brain.

    Antioxidant
    Besides its function as synchronizer of the biological clock, melatonin also exerts a powerful antioxidant activity. In many less complex life forms, this is its only known function.[34] Melatonin is an antioxidant that can easily cross cell membranes and the blood–brain barrier.[6][35] Melatonin is a direct scavenger of OH, O2−, and NO.[36] Unlike other antioxidants, melatonin does not undergo redox cycling, the ability of a molecule to undergo reduction and oxidation repeatedly. Redox cycling may allow other antioxidants (such as vitamin C) to act as pro-oxidants, counterintuitively promoting free radical formation. Melatonin, on the other hand, once oxidized, cannot be reduced to its former state because it forms several stable end-products upon reacting with free radicals. Therefore, it has been referred to as a terminal (or suicidal) antioxidant.[37]
    Recent research indicates that the first metabolite of melatonin in the melatonin antioxidant pathway may be N(1)-acetyl-N(2)-formyl-5-methoxykynuramine (or AFMK) rather than the common, excreted 6-hydroxymelatonin sulfate. AFMK alone is detectable in unicellular organisms and metazoans. A single AFMK molecule can neutralize up to 10 ROS/RNS (reactive oxygen species/reactive nitrogen species) since many of the products of the reaction/derivatives (including melatonin) are themselves antioxidants. This capacity to absorb free radicals extends at least to the quaternary metabolites of melatonin, a process referred to as "the free radical scavenging cascade." This is not true of other, conventional antioxidants.[34]
    In animal models, melatonin has been demonstrated to prevent the damage to DNA by some carcinogens, stopping the mechanism by which they cause cancer.[38]
    It also has been found to be effective in protecting against brain injury caused by ROS release in experimental hypoxic brain damage in newborn rats.[39] Melatonin's antioxidant activity may reduce damage caused by some types of Parkinson's disease, play a role in preventing cardiac arrhythmia and possibly increase longevity; it has been shown to increase the average life span of mice by 20% in some studies.[40][41][42]
    [edit] Immune system

    While it is known that melatonin interacts with the immune system,[43][44] the details of those interactions are unclear. There have been few trials designed to judge the effectiveness of melatonin in disease treatment. Most existing data are based on small, incomplete clinical trials. Any positive immunological effect is thought to result from melatonin acting on high affinity receptors (MT1 and MT2) expressed in immunocompetent cells. In preclinical studies, melatonin may enhance cytokine production,[45] and by doing this counteract acquired immunodeficiences. Some studies also suggest that melatonin might be useful fighting infectious disease[19] including viral, such as HIV, and bacterial infections, and potentially in the treatment of cancer.[46]
    Endogenous melatonin in human lymphocytes has been related to interleukin-2 (IL-2) production and to the expression of IL-2 receptor.[47] This suggests that melatonin is involved in the clonal expansion of antigen-stimulated human T lymphocytes. In rheumatoid arthritis patients, melatonin production has been found increased when compared to age-matched healthy controls.[48]
    Although it has not yet been clearly demonstrated whether melatonin increases non-specific immunity with resulting contraindication in autoimmune diseases, an increase in the production of IL-2 and IL-1 was noted in cultured splenocytes.[49]
    SquidProQuo likes this.
  5. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    One approach could be to try low doses first like 500mcg and see how you go. Common dose are 2 and 3mg per night.
  6. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    It depends on what you want to achieve. Low and high dose melatonin have opposite effects on certain hormones. I don't want to inhibit vasopressin and oxytocin, so I take a low dose (0.3mg). Besides, higher doses makes my sleep worse, not better.

    The effect of melatonin administration on pituitary hormone secretion in man.
    Also, the following study found that 6mg melatonin attenuates the cortisol response to ACTH, and I certainly don't want that.

    [Melatonin reduces cortisol response to ACTH in humans].
  7. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    It also depends on whether you subscribe to the theory that ME is primarily an infectious disease, or primarily an autoimmune disorder. Melatonin enhances the immune response, and so it could be helpful in the former, but harmful in the latter. Since I am undecided with regards to the etiology of ME, I restrict my use of melatonin to a near physiological dose, to be on the safe side. Higher doses also seem to worsen my allergies.

    August59 likes this.
  8. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    There is also some concern that high dose melatonin can worsen POTS. This would fit with the study that showed that high dose melatonin inhibits vasopressin. It is also my personal experience that high dose melatonin worsen POTS.

    Melatonin attenuates the sympathetic nerve responses to orthostatic stress in humans.
  9. Sherlock

    Sherlock bicarb for exercise recovery and taming candida

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    I can take 30mg and not feel a thing. I remembered just now that the first time I tried melatonin was when it first came out, roughly 20 years ago. It had no effect at the typical recommended dose then (which was much less than 30mg). That was long before I got sick.

    I assume for now that my high histamine is behind my lack of response to melatonin, rather than something like a melatonin absorption problem.
  10. sianrecovery

    sianrecovery Senior Member

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    I find it useful for sleep, and have been taking 6mg. Having read some of the posts on this thread, I may revisit that.
  11. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    I'd start way low. Sometimes more isn't always better.
  12. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    1.5 mg sounds good for starting?
  13. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    You might like to start even lower. For some people I think it can work better.
  14. Sparrow

    Sparrow Senior Member

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    A lot depends on the brand too. As mentioned above, I've found a tiny bit of certain brands MUCH more effective than lots of a different one. So if a tiny dose doesn't seem to be working for you, it might be worth trying a different brand rather than more pills. I can't say enough about the difference.

    My suggestion would be that if you can, try taking one or cutting up one of the sublingual Douglas Labs 3mg pills (their 1mg was not nearly as effective, but because of something else different about form of the pill itself) so that you can get a sense of what melatonin in general might do for you. Then you can branch out from there with cutting it into even smaller quantities, or trying different brands, etc, but will have a solid baseline to compare it to. That's by far the most effective one I've found.
    L'engle likes this.
  15. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Ok. Thanks.

    You guys have any other suggestions on what to take for insomnia?
  16. L'engle

    L'engle moderate ME

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    Melatonin at 3mg gives me worse insomnia for days. I may try the very small amount to see if it's different. I'm only having insomnia in reaction o other things that I'm trying out but still...

    Thanks Sparrow on the info about Douglas Labs brand.
  17. sianrecovery

    sianrecovery Senior Member

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    I use the usual herbal stuff, like valerian, and I use tryptophan. The Fatigued to fantastic lot do a couple of mixed sleep supps I've used over the years.
  18. Sparrow

    Sparrow Senior Member

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    I use lemon balm (also an antiviral) and hops about an hour before bed, then the melatonin around 15-20 minutes before I plan to be unconscious. Strictly avoiding TV and computers in the hour before bed has helped a ton too.

    I'm one of those weird people that gets wired from valerian. :eek: <-- Like that. ;)
  19. Sherlock

    Sherlock bicarb for exercise recovery and taming candida

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    What are your thoughts on why that happens? Allergic reaction?
  20. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    thou Melatonin can be bad for those with POTS, I have quite severe POTS but I havent noticed any ill affect of the Melatonin on it at all. Even if you do have POTS it can be worth a try for sleep issues (if it does cause issues they should only be temporary ones).

    Be aware that Melatonin may only help insomnia if you have circadian rythym issues involved in your insomina and that it usually only usually can bring the sleep cycle forward by about a couple of hours (but over time can be used to bring it to where a person wants it). Also its very important to follow good sleep hygiene practices eg avoiding computer for a few hours before bed etc etc

    I suggest to start off with 1mg pills and you can then easily cut them into 4 to trial smaller doses (if you are sensitive to many drugs).. or if use the common 1mg pills for a start up point.. its easy to increase up more with 1mg pills. "Most" people seem to be using doses of 1 to 3 mg. (In Australia the standard Melatonin pill dose one buys is 1mg ..overseas its higher).

    In my own case.. I found slow release Melatonin didnt help me at all so I dont get that now.
    Subliminal Melatonin was very good... normal melatonin I found good too but possibly the subliminal pills to put under the tongue may of been even better.

    Also dont confuse homoeopathic Melatonin with real Melatonin (thou some have said they have had homoeopathic Melatonin work for them). If you want real Melatonin, make sure that is what you are getting.

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