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Dr. Kerr, I presume?
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ME/CFS, XMRV, DSM-V and the British Medical Journal - 6 March 2010

Discussion in 'Media, Interviews, Blogs, Talks, Events about XMRV' started by natasa778, Mar 4, 2010.

  1. usedtobeperkytina

    usedtobeperkytina Senior Member

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    Frickly, and a discovery that may have implications for many illnesses.

    Tina
     
  2. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    British Medical Journal (BMJ) on XMRV and CFS

    From Charles Shepherd: Lots of stuff on XMRV/CFS in theBritish Medical Journal

     
  3. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Let's Proceed with Caution - Ed BMJ

    Interesting stuff; Suzanne Vernon wasn't the only one worried about that cohort and the methodology. On the hand Gerwyn will love the stuff on those old samples.

     
  4. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

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    Hardly interesting stuff Cort (other than the admittance of using 20-year old blood). The BMJ is the standard party medical journal in the UK, an unreserved apologist for the failings of the medical profession over the last 25 years. Not what I would call a neutral observer by any means.

    They have absolutely no incentive to solve CFS. Their vested interest lies only in maintaining the status quo.

    I read that as: "Let's have more research, but lets make sure its psychological based research. How dare you look at infectious causes for this disease."
     
  5. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    i got my reply into the bmj under the rapid response heading
     
  6. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Well it was interesting to me. I don't know BMG well. I thought it was interesting, that yes, other researchers have had similar concerns as Dr. Vernon - and yes, for whatever reason, the WPI has ignored requests for more information. We all want WPI to succeed but on this issue, for whatever reason, they've refused to provide more light.

    BMJ basically called one on themselves -tried to squirm out of an embarrassing situation - I've never seen that before! - so that was interesting to me as well. I hope we can get the other articles on the Journal. Here's my response on the XMRV buzz page I have:

     
  7. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

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  8. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    Great letter Gerwyn, so glad that they printed it as a RR. Some of these will make it to the printed edition.
     
  9. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

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    Cort it was Cathie Sudlow who said this, rather than the BMJ who are just quoting her opinion.

    Good editorial here.

    I love their call for more research and their faux concern for this community. Where is this research supposed to come from? There is no funding in this country for biomedical research into ME/CFS. Why don't they do a story on that.
     
  10. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member

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  11. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    You can't Teach a Retarded Dog (BMJ) New Tricks (Actual Science)

    This concerns me alot too. Does anyone have any info or can shed any light on this situation? We (WPI and other ME researchers and advocates) need to be punctilious in our methods and presentation so that others can not accuse us of logical flaws or trying to hide something as we (rightly) accuse those of the Wessely school and others.

    Yes, more maudlin b.s. fake concern for patients and how horrible it is that charlatans like WPI try to mislead us with false hope. How dare they imply that WPI/CC/NCI study was not 'good enough' and that the dutch study which used the Oxford criteria was! The Oxford criteria is blatently invalid and thus any study that uses it is invalid. End of Story.
     
  12. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    More B.S. from Wessely

    Below is the text of Wessely and McClure's nonsense from the current BMJ:
    http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/340/feb25_1/c1099

    There is so much wrong with this piece.

    Were the majority of "CFS" researchers dismissive of the finding as he claims or just his crew of fake "CFS" scientists/ insurance shills? Rhetorical Question.

    As usual Wessely et al. say it's not possible for there to be singular cause for the majority of "CFS" cases since "CFS" is so heterogenous and it doesn't have clear boundaries. And as usual they are talking about their own bogus Oxford definition they made up to cause confusion and doubt. Their usual circular logic.

    Does anyone have a take on the below:
     
  13. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

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    BMJ Podcast

    Podcast from the BMJ on it's XMRV issue here:

    http://podcasts.bmj.com/bmj/2010/03/05/chronic-fatigue-syndrome/

    Someone has written an excellent response below it. Some highlights:

     
  14. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch dxrevisionwatch.com

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    Hi Knackered,

    In November, WPI on Facebook posted a notice under the "Notes" Tab on its Facebook site in connection with the work of Defreitas. I can no longer locate a "Notes" section on the WPI Facebook site but I archived a copy on my own site, in this ME agenda posting:

    XMRV Retrovirus: Round up 25: WPI on DeFreitas, Hansard, MEA, AfME, Johnson

    Shrortlink: http://wp.me/p5foE-2tq

    Whittemore Peterson Institute on Facebook

    Statement posted by Whittemore Peterson Institute on 25 November under their Notes tab

    http://tinyurl.com/WPIFacebook8

    Fact #8

    Wednesday, November 25, 2009 at 8:44pm

    XMRV is Not the retrovirus identified by De Freitas et al.

    the publication and patent submitted by De Freitas et all clear describe the molecular characteristics of a retrovirus that is not a gamma (type C) retrovirus. The patent submitted for the retroviruses states

    Chronic Fatigue Immunodeficiency Syndrome associated virus, hereafter referred to by the name CAV may be morphologically characterized as a retrovirus, particularly a non-C retrovirus which is capable of infecting humans. Electron microscopy of viral particles formed in infected human cell cultures suggests that CAV is a non-C type retrovirus because of its diameter, morphology, formation and location of intracellular virions. The Electon micrographs of XMRV shown in Lombardi et al clearly depict a budding type C retrovirus of 90-100microns The DeFritas patent goes on to say More specifically, CAV-infected cells could be characterized by electron-dense circular virions, some with electron-luscent cores and others with electron-dense cores, associated with the rough endoplasmic reticulum and inside large abnormally distended mitochondria in the cells. All particles are the same shape and size, 46-50 nm. No extracellular virus is observed. No forms budding from the cytoplasmic membranes are observed.

    Thus, CAV-infected cells could also be charcterized by the presence of intracytoplasmic particlesGamma (type C) retroviruses are 90 1100uM as shown in Lombardi et al and all are shown to consist of electron dense cores and specifically to bud extra-cellularly not intracellularly.

    The data describes in the Defreitas patent can be found at:

    http://www.ncf-net.org/forum/revelations.html

    These data are indisputable that XMRV is NOT the retrovirus described by De Freitas et al.

    [Ends]
     
  15. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch dxrevisionwatch.com

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    All three requests for information were fulfilled, yesterday (08 March). Copies here:

    http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/showthread.php?3637

    The responses received raise more questions than they answer.
     
  16. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    BMJ: Helping Doctors Make Worse Decisions

    My comment to the podcast:

     
  17. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    An Unbelievable Podcast by Wessely on BMJ Website

    Wessely actually says: EVEN IF XMRV WERE FOUND TO BE THE CAUSE, MEDICAL THERAPIES WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE!! on the BMJ podcast, see below.

    Exactly. Wessley is smart. He sure knows how to pull a scam with carefully crafted and continuous PR. His job title should be UNUM propoganda minister because that literally is his full time job. As we all know, it certainly isn't science.

    In the same issue on-line is our boy Wessely and his friends expressing how wonderful it is to be helping the poor "CFS" patients and how XMRV is total BS. He even says that...

    EVEN IF XMRV WERE FOUND TO BE THE CAUSE, MEDICAL THERAPIES WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE!!

    He then says "We're not going to go doing more and more tests to find out what was the virus because, frankly, even if we found it there's nothing we're going to do about it. We're in the business of rehabilitation."
    (at 10 minutes 20 seconds)

    And then the interviewer repeats this uncritically in summary at the end!

    http://podcasts.bmj.com/bmj/2010/03/...igue-syndrome/

    Someone has written a very nice response below it. Highlights:


    My comment to the podcast:

     
  18. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

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    We need people to submit replies to the articles in question. Bombard the BMJ (which intelligent criticism). Preaching to the converted here isn't going to help anyone.

    Good work Justin btw!
     

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