ME/CFS or lyme

[msf]

Of course, the latter could be one of the causes for the higher incidence of autoimmunity too.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Haha, I meant a bet with nothing at stake, except for the chance to say ´I told you so.´

Briefly, I think the autoimmunity may be either molecular mimicry, or autoimmunity to some substrate that is produced as a result of the infection (like the autoimmunity to nitrosative and oxidative epitopes that Maes has reported), or both.

I think this will partially explain why there are more severe cases of ME on average in Scandinavia (if indeed there are), but that this will also be a result of the climate and latitude of Scandinavia, as both factors reduce the amount of sunlight being absorbed by these patients, and thereby the amount of serotonin, Vitamin D and other important substances being produced.

Dear msf,
Whether or not Yersinia hangs around, I am not aware of any suggestion that the arthritis has anything to do with B cells or autoimmunity. If it is a T cell problem, as seems likely, we have no evidence for autoreactivity. Molecular mimicry is largely a defunct hypothesis. B cell depletion with rituximab has no benefit in seronegative spondarthritis and has been associated with worsening of psoriasis (a Class I associated disease).

 

[msf]

Sorry, my post was obviously a bit confusing. I didn´t mean that we should use Ritux for ReA. When I called it autoimmune, it was just because I didn´t know the proper term for that kind of disease. I was using the Yersinia plus self-damaging immune reaction as an analogy for Lyme or other infection plus self-damaging immune reaction that I believe we are seeing in some cases of ME. The other reason I mentioned it was I was interested whether it was just coincidence that both ReA and other diseases with a different kind of self-damaging immune reaction (such as MS) have a higher incidence in Scandinavia, or whether some genes have an effect on both kinds of disease.

 

[Dufresne]

Molecular mimicry is largely a defunct hypothesis. B cell depletion with rituximab has no benefit in seronegative spondarthritis and has been associated with worsening of psoriasis (a Class I associated disease).

I've had something like ankylosing spondylitis for the last 9 years. I'm HLA B27 negative but I don't know of a better explanation for the pain, swelling, and stiffness I get. I believe I read that 15% of AS patients are HLA B27 negative.

So I understand the klebsiella link has been pretty convincingly refuted but I still find a very low carb diet is the only thing to control the condition. As long as I stick to the diet the condition is negligible.

I'm not sure why but MSM drives my AS absolutely nuts. I wonder if this could somehow relate to the following study that found higher levels of sulphate-reducing bacteria in the stool of AS patients.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468819

I'd appreciate any thoughts.

 

[TrixieStix]

I've had something like ankylosing spondylitis for the last 9 years. I'm HLA B27 negative but I don't know of a better explanation for the pain, swelling, and stiffness I get. I believe I read that 15% of AS patients are HLA B27 negative.

So I understand the klebsiella link has been pretty convincingly refuted but I still find a very low carb diet is the only thing to control the condition. As long as I stick to the diet the condition is negligible.

I'm not sure why but MSM drives my AS absolutely nuts. I wonder if this could somehow relate to the following study that found higher levels of sulphate-reducing bacteria in the stool of AS patients.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468819

I'd appreciate any thoughts.

I am going thru testing myself for Ankylosing Spondylitis and other spondylopathies at the moment with a rheumatologist. Yes you can have AS and be HLA-B27 negative but if your caucasian the % is only between 5-10%. I see 5% listed most often. the HLA-B27 is not used as a concrete diagnostic tool. A negative test should in no way by itself rule out AS. There are also other conditions that are similar to AS but not classified as such.

Someone in as AS facebook group sent think link to me today. It has a lot of info I was unaware of.

http://www.the-rheumatologist.org/a...defining-spectrum-of-axial-spondyloarthritis/