Discussion in 'Finances, Work, and Disability' started by Sean, Jun 29, 2014.
I couldn't open the link but I'm guessing that it refers in part to proposed changes to eligibility for Disability Support Pension (DSP) in Australia.
This has been described in the media today as DSP only being available if you have a permanent disability and no capacity to work.
How "permanent disability" will be defined in the future wasn't explained, but eg if you have a condition where recovery is considered to be a possibility (say ME/CFS) will you lose DSP?
Not sure how "no capacity to work" will be defined either eg if you have a permanent disability and are deemed capable of working 2 hours a week will you lose DSP?
The intention appears to be to cut DSP eligibility to the bone and shift people on to Newstart (which pays less) where they will be forced to look for non existent jobs.
While this won't affect me personally, I am really concerned about the effect of these proposed changes on people with ME/CFS (and others) who are currently on DSP.
Does anyone else have more details about the proposed changes?
Checked link in two different browsers and it is working for me.
Anybody else having trouble with it?
Try this link:
Some Oz relevant fact-based links, in no particular order:
There's no concrete evidence that ME isn't a chronic condition. So I don't know how they can force people off disability.
If they force people to work, they will have to find them jobs. I can't imagine an employer wanting to hire someone with moderate ME as this condition would make them unreliable and quality of their work would be low.
I can see the resume now. I take lots of sick leave, can't follow instructions or remember them. Can't even add correctly with a calculator. Do tasks ten ttimes slower than normal. Employers will be fighting over these workers.
The govt can say what they like but reality is very different.
It would be interesting if one could be backed up by an expert cfs doc and get the govt to pay for proper treatment like $20k worth of ampligen or $10k of valcyte so that one would have potential to work part time? ??? Dreaming I know but realistically the only way to possibly stop this illness being chronic? ?
That's the truth... but will it matter?
I was told by an "employment expert" that missing just 3 days a month makes a person unemployable.
But you'd think differently, from all the "back to work" initiatives for sick people everywhere.
Seriously, we quit work (or got fired or picked for layoffs) because we were missing too much work, working too slowly, and making too many mistakes. But this is a change from before we were ill, when typically we were successful workers and scholars. And they think they are going to fix this with... Employee retraining? And programs telling employers how great it is to hire disabled people (because all disabilities are the same)?
No, it takes medicine, and medicine takes research, and research takes a monetary investment. Then we go back to work and celebrate doing so.
From my own experiences, I can see those with ME may be about to be in a world of trouble.
First of all, how many of us have an actual "ME" diagnoses? My diagnoses unfortunately thou I have ME is "CFS". Most people believe CFS isnt a permanent illness if they are going to use that word in being able to have disability pension support (and of cause in many cases that isnt permanent.. even some ME cases get better).
Secondly.. Ive already seen thou from my own experience already, on getting disabled people back to work, going back years ago (I cant remember when now 5? years ago), so from that I assume it would be how they want it to work. (I suspect what I was put throu may of been some kind of trial the gov of that time may of been doing).
What they did to me is sent me to a special Disability Job place .. those places one goes in which they help one to get jobs but this one was solely for disabled people. (I was on newstart at the time fighting to get onto a disability pension but kept on being knocked back even thou I was that sick that I couldnt even stay seated at many of my appointments and was laying on Centrelink floor.. and this when when I got sent to this disability job place and had following happen).
this is how it worked
I was made to sign a contract to work so many hours a week, I think for me it was 6 hrs a week. What they didnt tell me thou was if I couldnt do the 6hrs a week or make them up in another week if I'd had a more badder week, I could be cut off of Centrelink payments for breach of the contract (those threats came after!! I smashed two cars due to trying to get to work too sick due to these threats Id be cut off and Centrelink refused to take sickness certificate from me.. actually handed it right back to me saying they wouldnt accept it)
As due to the ME, my illness was unpredictable.. I couldnt work a normal set job hours and they understood that.. but, they said that didnt matter!!! The reason given was there was jobs out there in which one can choose ones own time and hence do in ones better times and not go too when one is feeling too bad. So they had me applying for house cleaning contract work and care work as a subcontractor!! (I can say that people got very pissed off when I had to change times too often on them! It was hugely stressful and over time I couldnt catch up on my hours enough to get my 6hrs I'd signed contract for).
The agencies out there, unless they've now changed that past subcontracting thing, were always looking for subcontractors.. these housecleaning agencies do not care if one can only do a little amount of hours per week and they expect oneself to make times with the clients etc etc. (It was due to doing this and working with chemicals, I think which brought on my MCS!!).
In the end as I got worst and worst, my condition constantly in a decline due to the Centrelink threats to cut me off if I didnt make the quota of hours, forcing me not to rest enough and I still couldnt keep up my contract with the disability job place.
Id started off at some weeks being maybe be able to work 8-10hrs week but due to all this pressure and expectation and trying to catch up on work from my worst weeks.. I got to the point where I could only work 1-2 hrs per week and even then I was shocking at my work.... falling over at work, smashing peoples things as I'd lost my judgement and had poor hand/eye coordination, falling over the mop bucket and knocking it all over the floor.. I couldnt even remember which rooms I'd cleaned and which I hadnt. I even dropped on the floor and nearly passed out a few times and other times I had to stop in middle of work and lay on a clients lounge. My elderly clients felt so sorry for me that they'd end up trying to help me with the cleaning (One them even wrote a long letter to Centrelink saying I shouldnt be working!! but it just got ignored).
oh another thing... the disability job place which helps one get jobs, told me I wasnt allowed to tell employers I was ill in any way. They said if I did that and they found out, Centrelink would be told and I'd be cut off any payments as that would be deemed as trying not to get work and purposely stopping people employing me.. they told me they'd be checking up on me etc. They expected me to lie!! (which made me feel horrid as I knew there was no way I could do the work.. and this was very distressing presenting myself untruthfully with my Aspergers too).
Cause people tend to like me and I had good schooling behind me etc.. I ended up getting 2-3 jobs in one week (and was so upset). I never recovered from being forced to do that work!!
I honestly think that had I been given the disability pension when I should of got it and hadnt done that work, maybe I would of ended up in a few years going into a remission again as I had in the past..but that work really damaged me... I went throu this being forced to try to work for 8-9 mths while appealling 3 times the disability pension knockbacks. The third my case went to Canberra (from SA) and the assessor there was horrified I hadnt immediately been given a disability pension.
someone in the SA office (a guy in Mt Barker office) had once nastily said under his breath (but loud enough for me to hear) that he'd make sure I never would get it here (He also told me to my face I wouldnt get it..but not in such a horrid way)...he even went as far as taking out things from my file I'd presented for my case!!. he and the other guy in my local Centrelink didnt believe in CFS.
True, they can never completely over ride actual reality. But they can rain a shitload of very real and permanent carnage down onto us in the meantime while they are giving it a damn good go.
See the current UK situation, for example.
Or any war, anywhere, anytime in human history.
My computer cant get the pdf files up so I cant read the government reports. I wanted too in case there is anything which a submission is needed to be put in before the date expires to do so.
Im quite concerned about it all.
Were you able to download the PDF at all? Or you can, but can't read it on your computer?
According to this 'Make A Submission' page, any submission must be in by 5.00pm EST on 8 August 2014.
If this happens again, contact the police. Its inducement to fraud, and its a crime. Being a public servant is not license to commit a crime. You are required for most jobs and employment, at least full time, though I suspect this might vary state by state, to be covered under workcover. That means they are required to have an accurate medical picture. Inducing one to lie about it is therefore an inducement to commit fraud. I would have them criminally investigated.
Yeah I should of done, centrelink person and disability job place person got away with a lot which should of been reported but wasnt as I just was struggling so much eg Centrelink person refusing my sickness certificates.. that was probably illlegal too (I assume they were refused on the grounds of having CFS).
I wish I'd taped everything was was said and done to me.
It wouldnt down load for me, it started too.. first page and then got stuck.
No idea why others are having trouble accessing it. That link is still working for me.
I tried to upload it here a couple of times but the forum software says it is too big, despite the upload limit being set at 10 MB and the file only being 7.3 MB.
Is it possible for a mod to upload it to the forum?
A tad ironic that graphic (which exposes the lies of the alleged welfare crisis) is on p162 of the McClure report!
Indeed. Here is a quote from a UK newspaper article on the ATOS / welfare to work scandal:
Very interesting point. Spin and wishful thinking doesn't make disability go away. We need to start investing in research to lead to effective treatments, not depend on flaky rollouts of biopsychosocial ideology done on the cheap.
Payment reform must reduce poverty, complexity, and exclusion from employment
Media release from ACOSS* about the interim McClure report.
* Australian Council Of Social Services
The issue has been fixed. PDF uploaded.
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