The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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mb12 / mfolate resolve symptoms but startup reaction is bad

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by j226, Feb 13, 2015.

  1. j226

    j226

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    Looking for advice here since I'm having a drastic reaction in both good and bad ways to methylation supplements. My symptoms have been chronic fatigue, brain fog, severe muscle fatigue, post extertional malaise, memory issues, mcs, anxiousness, exercise intolerance, and acid reflux. I've found that even a small dose of enzy mb12 will pretty much resolve all of these symptoms within a day. Mfolate has the same effect but it takes at least a few weeks of taking 1mg a day before by symptoms go away.

    The problem is both mb12 / mfolate lead to very intense start up symptoms which are: overstimulated feeling (it feels like I've taken way too much caffeine), bad anxiety, high energy, high strength, potassium depletion, ears ringing. Sometimes for the potassium depletion 3g supplemented potassium isn't enough and I need to add coconut water or else my muscles will start to tense / spasm at rest. Once I stop the supplements and the startup calms down I go through a few days of feeling perfect then slowly start to get weak again. Stress and exercise seem to make the over-stimulation worse.

    The difficulty with mb12 is it doesn't take much to cause intense startup, the lowest dose I've tried at 250 mcg of enzy subliminal lead to intense startup, this can last between 8 - 12 days. The reaction was identical to taking 1mg. Any idea why it takes so long for startup to wear off from just 1 dose? I haven't tried combining mb12 / mfolate yet since I don't want these symptoms to be more intense. Niacin makes a big difference in calming this type of reaction down but I sometimes need to take 100mg every 45min - 1hr. I wonder if this is ATP start up because when it happens I have a ton of energy, strength, and endurance whereas I was previously very weak and my muscles barely worked. I noticed that taking TMG possibly helped prevent the startup when on mfolate but I'm not certain. Back when I was weak choline bitartrate used to help with muscle symptoms and it would reduce anxiety but now it makes the startup type symptoms worse just for a few hours.

    Prior to having these results with enzy mb12 / mfolate I had been trying adb12 8.6mg, jarrow mb12 5mg, and acetyl l-carnitine with no effect.

    For mb12 since 250 mcg of enzy is way too much would it make more sense to start with chewing a similar sized dose rather than using it sublingual? I would like to try a dose closer to 25 mcg then slowly increase but it would be hard to cut the pill down to that size.

    Prior to starting these supplements I had an organic acids test which found: folate / biotin was very low, moderate cobalamin / b1 deficiency, formiminoglutamic acid was very high, very low succinic acid. Moderately low: a-ketoisovaleric acid, a-ketoisocaproic acid, a-keto-b-methylvaleric acid. Moderately high a-hydroxyisobutryic acid. There were also some indications of possible bacterial / fungal dysbiosis.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2015
  2. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    I recognize your "start up symptoms" and it makes me take a minute amount of mB12 once every two weeks. Untill my body is more used to it, then I'll up the frequency. You and me, we're in for the long haul :) don't be surprised starting up this process of ridding your cells of debris has such an effect, you have time to do things more slowly.

    Sure you can cut pills that small. You soon get the feel of how much "dust" the required amount is.

    Edit: i recognize all your symptoms precisely except potassium depletion. Is this because I take extra Magnesium and Selenium with mB12? Or because I have adrenal problems and need excessive salt anyway? Just a thought.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2015
    j226 and Gondwanaland like this.
  3. j226

    j226

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    It's been about 3 weeks since my last dose of mb12 and the start-up symptoms haven't completely worn off yet. The overstimulation and anxiety are down and some of my previous muscle weakness (which methylation support resolves) is intermittently coming back. However, I still require a lot of pottasium which only happens when I take mfolate or mb12.

    Start-up symptoms from mfolate usually takes around 4 days to wear off but it's difficult waiting for this mb12 start-up to take this long to calm down. Is it unusual for this type of start-up reaction from mb12 to last this long?
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2015

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