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mb12, adb12 and mthf lozenge with no sweeteners and pointless additives?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Anteah, Jul 23, 2012.

  1. Anteah

    Anteah Senior Member

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    Hi, guys!

    I just started taking methylation support stuff, such as mb12, adb12 and methylfolate, and so far so good, but I think i am having a reaction to mannitol, xylitol (expected since I have candida and overall sensitive gut) and possibly flavors in Jarrow, Solgar and Countrylife formulas. Does anyone know of any that are pure and do not contain needless additives. Has anyone tried to get any from compounding pharmacies? Does one needs a prescription for that? Also what about private label labs? I am relatively new to this, but have tried researching for the last few days and can not find any of these that do not contain things that I listed above. I really do not want to stop taking them, but I also do not want to continue taking things that i know are not good for me, even if it contains a helpful active ingredient. I've been avoiding flavors and colorants and sweeteners for so long, it is really frustrating now to have to be OK with having them in my system and suffer the issues that come from them. Any suggestions?
     
    stefny likes this.
  2. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    The best I have found in this regard is mb12 pre prepared sc injections that are preservative free - I've been using them sublingually as drops. They come from an Australian compounding pharmacy. It's a very expensive way of doing it though.I needed a prescription for these.

    You can buy methyl b12 powder on ebay, that's probably worth trying too, but the seller didn't respond to my questions about whether it had been handled correctly(ie no light exposure).

    Holistic heal has drops that have a herbal flavour and not much else.

    I'm considering writing a letter/petition to the major supplement companies about this issue.
     
    stefny likes this.
  3. Anteah

    Anteah Senior Member

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    Hi, Adster! Thanks for your suggestions! I was thinking about the drops, but ive read people say that since they cant be kept directly against the skin (gum or whatever) for long time they are essentialy useless. How well are they working for you? How exactly do you use them and do you find that you have to use more just to meet your dose requirement?
     
  4. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    I'm actually squirting the extra drops onto 1/4 s of a jarrow 1mg tab under each side of the tongue. It seems to hold on to the liquid a bit that way and let it absorb slowly. Adding the drops has had a noticeable effect, although I'm still having crashes for some reason, but this has always been the case. The drops have improved sleep and vision.I use about .1ml of 25mg/ml strength liquid.

    Maybe there's some type of tablet that is fairly inert that you could use sub-lingually to hold the drops there a bit longer, if you decide to try them.
     
  5. sedonagal

    sedonagal

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    I also have problems with the sugar alcohols, they are known to cause digestive upset and bowel problems. And we know xylitol is used to kill germs in the mouth, so I wonder what it does to our good intestinal bacteria.

    I also would like an oral b12 sans the sugar alcohols, but also sans the citric acid, which definitely erodes my teeth. I've had to stop using the SL B12 due to this.

    ETA: Meant to say that I am still using the SL b12, except now I put it under my tongue. Not the best, I know, but I've been able to keep it there for around 40 minutes and I feel it's doing its job.
     
  6. Anteah

    Anteah Senior Member

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    Hmm, it looks like we are all in the same boat.

    Adster, thanks for describing your method, it is something I want to try. I called to Holisticheal today and asked about the drops. They told me that according to their doctor (Dr. Amy) they are as potent or MORE potent than average lozenges. Somehow i don't fully trust that, because they way I see it if it were the case overwhelming amount of people on this site would be using them and they are not, so I wonder why they are stating that. They had no good comment about the use of sorbitol in their lozenge formula.

    Sedonagal, I agree, I can't stand sweeteners and citric acid either. Citric acid leaves yucky feeling in my mouth afterwards and erodes enamel, and I can feel sugar alcohols do a number on my digestion, even at such small amounts. I did read somewhere though that citric acid is supposed to help with overall absorption and is therefore often used in sublinguals, but for me, I would forgo some of the absorption in order to have just a simple plain as day no-nonsense kind of lozenge.

    I called a local compounding pharmacy today trying to price out the "pure formula" (Stevia for sweetener, no citric acid, no flavors or dyes) done through them, they said they will have to get back to me as no one has ever asked for it before, which is odd to me because many of us CFS/ME and Autism folks suffer with yeast and "natural" flavors intolerances. Anyway, I will update this thread with the price once they call me back in case someone else is interested in going that route.
     
  7. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    Anteah, be sure to ask the pharmacy about how they handle the b12. As you may know it is very sensitive to light and can be far less effective if not prepared properly. Good luck!
     
  8. Anteah

    Anteah Senior Member

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    Hi, Adster!

    Well, my estimate request with compounding pharmacy didn't go to well, at least for me because of my money constrains. They quoted me $165 for 60 lozenges containing 5000mcg of mb12 and 800mcg of methylfolate, which is not an option for me because right now I can get both of those locally for roughly $30, but the local brands ofcourse contain the stuff i am trying to avoid. Anyway, i've seen you say something about possibly purchasing methylb12 powder. I found a company Superior Nutraceuticals http://www.superiornutraceuticals.c...N&Product_Code=MethlyB12P&Category_Code=OAASN that does sell it.

    Not sure if they would sell it to a lay person, but if they would my main issue with what they posted on the website was the following: "This item is pure Methylcobolamin. And should be used for research, and/or reformulation purposes. Due to the purity it would be very difficult to attempt to dose this in 1000mcg or even 5000mcg increments without highly specialized equipment. Ships in a 60c amber glass bottle. Light sensitive."

    So they clearly realize that it is light sensitive and its a good thing that it ships in a light protectant container, but the fat that they say one needs highly specialized equipment to dilute it is something that I don't know how to understand. Does it essentially mean that we as lay people will have no way of dosing properly? I just would like to hear your thoughts on this, since I know you said you were considering purchasing powder.

    Thanks!
     
  9. celeste

    celeste

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    Has anyone tried the No Shot microlingual methylcobalamin by Superior Source? It seems to work well for me, though it is fairly expensive, especially for the 5000mcg and 10,000mcg. I’ve not seen any mention of it on the forum here.
     
  10. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    Nice find with the powder Anteah! Sounds like it's quite concentrated, so I would have no idea how to work out the dosing. That said, I'd be game to experiment, given mb12 is non toxic and you can titrate the dose by duration when used sublingually.
     
  11. Anteah

    Anteah Senior Member

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    Adster: That makes sense, I was just wondering if perhaps the powder would dissolve too quickly in the mouth for it to be of any use though. I wonder if there any delivery system that can be devised that would release that powder slowly just like the sublinguals do.

    Celeste: I was looking at that brand at first until realizing that it has lactose (milk), which I personally can't have, as it gives me sever anxiety. but I did wonder why it wasn't mentioned here at all. I figured it was one of those brands that did not work well. It is nice to hear that it works for you though!
     
  12. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    I'm sure you could work something out to make the powder usable, even if it's just mixed with water and delivered with a dropper. Working out the dose would be difficult though, I imagine 1mg is a very small amount of that powder.
     
  13. biophile

    biophile Places I'd rather be.

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    Thorne brand is supposed to pride itself on purity and hypoallergenic fillers. I think most of their products are capsules and more expensive. I ordered their vitamin D once specifically because they claimed that they did not use a preservative commonly used in vitamin D supplements. I found that it didn't make any difference though, probably because I was reacting to the vitamin D itself (makes me feel sleep deprived).
     
  14. Anteah

    Anteah Senior Member

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    Hi, Adster, true, mixing with water might be a way, but from what I've heard isnt it the time that the b12 is in contact with the tissue is what makes it absorb better? I know holistic heal has methylb12 drops, but from all I read here people are not too impressed with them, since you can't hold them in your mouth for 2 hours like a lozenge.

    Biophile, yes I think I looked at Thorne and found that yes they have some capsule version of the b12 stuff, which doesn't help too much. I did find Methylfolate in tablets from Douglas Labs. I think it is meant to be used as a tablet and swallowed, but i don't see any reason it can't be held in a mouth as a lozenge. It doesn't have any sweeteners or dyes or flavors.
     
  15. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    Yep that's true Anteah, although if you are really careful not to move your tongue you can keep it under there for a reasonable time. The liquid ones I've been trying lately certainly work.

    I've tried that Thorne mb12. This will sound crazy, but I actually made a little tablet making press from some old nuts and bolts to compress the Thorne capsule powder into a tablet, it worked really well but the Thorne tablets were not very good at all.
     
  16. Anteah

    Anteah Senior Member

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    Hm, ok, thanks for letting know that drops work. Maybe I should try it next. And really odd that such companies as Thorne that are supposedly known for high quality can't produce a strong enough methylb12 supplement.
     
  17. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    I wonder if the mb12 in the Thorne is perfectly fine, but the lack of citric acid means it is less well absorbed. I think that's the reason for including it.

    With the drops, you can just use one drop every 20mins or so, then add another. Less escapes that way, I think.
     
  18. Anteah

    Anteah Senior Member

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    Yes, I did read that somewhere about citric acid.

    With drops though, I work so I won't be able to dose every 20 minutes. I'd have to look for some way of getting enough with one doze in the morning and another one at night. I guess I just have to play with the doze of Jarrow. At least they are using Xylitol which I have much less problems with than Solgar who use Mannitol in their Methylfolate. Just ordered Methylfolate by Douglas Labs from Pure Formulas, which does not seems to have any sweetner or flavors. Will see how I fare on that. My main issue is candida, and while I haven't had a major flare up using Solgar Methylfolate I did notice some symptoms that tell me I can't be using it too often, due to candida. I really wish all of this wasn't so confusing :).
     
  19. Lynn_M

    Lynn_M Senior Member

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    Freddd has referred to testing a "red dot" mB12 when he did his initial comparison testing of the 10 or so brands of mB12. I assumed this was referring to the No Shot mB12 by Superior Source. And he said it was worthless. I would suspect that's probably because it doesn't stay in the mouth long enough to have any tissue absorption.
     
  20. celeste

    celeste

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    I'm sorry, Lynn, to hear that Freddd says the methylcobalamin I'm using is 'worthless'. It's working for me, so I'll stick with it.
     

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