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Marlènes results of methylation, organic acids and sulphur metabolites

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Marlène, May 7, 2012.

  1. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    hello anniekim

    These tests are indeed methylation, organic acids and sulphur metabolites. They were done by the European Laboratory of Nutrients.

    methylation.jpg
  2. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    Ok, just came back from my doctor. He wants me to test the TSH, T4, T3 and cortisol and some metabolites (creatinine, protein, glucose, natrium, potassium, calcium, ureum, amylase, microalbumine, 17-steroid fraction) in the urine.

    Other things on the list are complement C3, C4 and ANF because of the lupus.

    He said that if there are other things I wanted to have tested to complete my research, I had the permission to check it on the list. Most things have been checked recently apart from bleeding disorders which I suffered from a few years ago.
  3. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Make sure you add Free T4, Free T3 and Reverse T3...
  4. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

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    Thanks Marlene
  5. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Marlene.

    Here are some comments on your lab test results:

    You have glutathione depletion (based on low Glutamic acid lactam (pyroglutamic acid)).
    You have a B12 deficiency, probably a functional B12 deficiency (based on low glutathione and low methylcobalamin). Note that MMA is not elevated, probably because it is masked by deficiencies in vitamin B6 and biotin.
    You have a partial block of methionine synthase, which links the methylation cycle with the folate metabolism (based on low-normal SAM, high SAH, low-normal 5-methyl THF and low THF).
    You have loss of folates from the cells (based on low levels of most of the folates).

    In view of the above, I would say that you have the vicious circle mechanism that characterizes ME/CFS, as described by the Glutathione Depletion--Methylation Cycle Block hypothesis, and that a methylation protocol would be likely to help you.

    The low red blood cell folic acid level indicates that you have oxidative damage to your cell membranes, which is to be expected with low glutathione.

    In addition, you have low vitamin B6 (based on low pyridoxic acid, and low or low-normal values for the first five amino acid metabolites).

    Your glycolysis appears to be operating somewhat more slowly than normal (based on low-normal pyruvic acid).
    Your body is not in ketosis, and fatty acids are not undergoing omega oxidation at an elevated rate. This is somewhat surprising, because the low citric acid level indicates that the Krebs cycle is being fed at a lower than normal rate, and in fact, your Krebs metabolites are low in general. This would likely produce fatigue. Perhaps the thyroid and adrenals are not stimulating the gene expression of enzymes in glycolysis and the Krebs cycle as much as normal. I understand that your thyroid hormones may be a little low.

    You might have low vitamin C or low copper (based on high-normal HVA with low-normal VMA). Low vitamin C would be expected with glutathione depletion, because glutathione normally recycles vitamin C.

    I don't have a unique explanation for the abnormalities in your sulfur metabolites. You might have elevated production of hydrogen sulfide by bacteria in the gut or possibly due to the partial methylation cycle block combined with an upregulating polymorphism in the gene for cystathionine beta synthase (CBS). Also, you might have a polymorphism in the gene for the sulfite oxidase enzyme, or you might have a molybdenum deficiency. Your high thiosulfate together with low thiocyanate, combined with your history of cyanide intolerance suggests that you might have a polymorphism in the gene for rhodanese, which is the enzyme that normally converts cyanide to thiocyanate by reacting it with thiosulfate. I'm not able to sort this out with the available data.

    You could do the home test for hydrogen sulfide in the urine that is supplied by ProteaPharma there in Belgium. You could also run the stool test offered by RedLabs in Belgium to see what the bacterial populations are in your gut. If you do that, I suggest that you ask them to add the Desulfovibrio genus from their library when they run the analysis. Genomic testing would show whether you have the polymorphisms I suggested. You could run tests for the metals at the ELN lab in the Netherlands.

    I hope this is helpful.

    Best regards,

    Rich
    Marlène likes this.
  6. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    hello rich

    your input is very much appreciated, thanks a lot! People like you who use their true potential keep me positive minded :thumbsup:

    Could it be because I use a lot of Alkala N to get rid of lactic acid as well as weekly neural therapy to detox the cells?

    One of these days I should get the results of genomic testing after a blood test and skin biopsy done at the department of genetics at the hospital. No idea what to expect but curious!
  7. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Marlene.

    You're welcome!

    I don't know whether Alkala N would cause this, but I suspect it wouldn't. Usually when a person's glycolysis is slow, I see the fatty acid markers go up, indicating that the cells are trying to burn fat in order to make up for the lack of carbohydrates, but your fatty acid markers are not raised, and your citric acid is low.

    I forgot to mention that your vitamin B5 level is also low, and that could be contributing to the low citric acid, because B5 is needed to make coenzyme A, and Co A is part of acetyl CoA, which reacts with oxaloacetate to make citric acid.

    Your B2 looks O.K. I don't have data for your B3. Both B2 and B3 are needed for burning fatty acids.

    Best regards,

    Rich
  8. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    Any idea what I should tick on the lab papers to have mold allergy investigated?
  9. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Marlene.

    I don't know what is available from the lab you are dealing with.

    If you do mean mold allergy (and not sensitivity to mold toxins, producing biotoxin illness), then the ELISA/ACT Basic test is a possibility. Here is a place it can be ordered, without a doctor's order:

    https://www.directlabs.com/OrderTests/tabid/55/language/en-US/Default.aspx

    Best regards,

    Rich
  10. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    When I smell mold (or even smelly feet), my mood swings in an instant. Is that allergy to mold or sensitivity to mold toxin?
  11. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    And who can blame you? :D

    OK, without really knowing what I am talking about here, I am pretty sure that whatever you are smelling are the organic acids produced by the critters inhabiting people's feet. So I guess the answer to your question would be "neither".
  12. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    I can smell mold, swampy socks and feet miles away :eek: It really makes me agressive, it's stronger than me. Not very proud of it.
  13. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    OK, the new forum software just "digested" your original nickname and spit out a new one, Marlene!

    Anyway, I guess I won't ever be able to be in the same city as you, then! :D
    Marlne likes this.
  14. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    I must have missed it, but what Lab was used? Thanks
  15. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    hello august

    They were done by the European Laboratory of Nutrients in the Netherlands.
  16. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Marlene,

    Five star mb12 and adb12 will make all the difference in the world. Hydroxyb12 works at less than 1% of the effectiveness. Then there are all the cofactors needed.
  17. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    Thanks Freddd, that was pretty obvious :D

    I started all the supplements on your list
    +
    1/4 tablet of mb12
    1/2 tablet of adb12

    At the end of the day I had a huge headache already. I added some vitamine C before I went to sleep.

    I gave it a second try the next day, same result but this time I also collapsed physically. Unable to wake up during the day as if I was in a coma for a few hours. Even preparing lunch for my little boy was impossible, he served himself from the fridge ...

    Today I skipped the B12 supplements to see whether there is a difference and I'm still awake but very tired as usual. Time to take a nap :)
  18. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Marlene,

    Time to do a reset and start differently.. So first get established on the general vitamins and minerals, omega3 oils etc. Then start with CRUMB of the adb12 and a somewhat larger crumb of mb12 (less than 1/10 tablet each. Avoid folic acid and folinic acid for now, those can be tested for later. You can start with whatever dose of Metafolin you are comfortable with the idea of, say 400mcg or so. You will likely have symptoms indicating a much larger dose of Metafolin and potassium. Usually the potassium levels out at around 2000-3000 mg a day after a couple of adjustments and Metafolin to 1600-3200 mcg typically unless you have parqadoxical folate deficiency.


    Group 1 – Hypokalemia onset. Symptoms may appear with serum potassium as high as 4.3. May become dangerous if ignored. Considered “rare” with cyanocobalamin it is very common with methylb12 and adensosylb12 and less so with hydroxycobalamin..
    IBS – Steady constipation , Nausea, Vomiting, Paralyzed Ileum, Hard knots of muscle, Sudden muscle spasms when relaxed, Sudden muscle spasms when stretching , Sudden muscle spasms when kneeling, Sudden muscle spasms when reaching , Sudden muscle spasms when turning upper body to side, Tightening of muscles, neck muscles, Muscle weakness, Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), Increased pulse rate, Increased blood pressure, Emotional changes and/or instability, dermal or sub-dermal Itching, and if not treated potentially paralysis and death.

    Group 2a - Both
    IBS – Diarrhea alternating with constipation, IBS – Normal alternating with constipation

    Group 2b – Either or both
    Headache, Increased malaise, Fatigue

    Group 3 - Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency
    IBS – Steady diarrhea, IBS – Diarrhea alternating with normal, Stomach ache, Uneasy digestive tract, increased hypersensitive responses , Skin rashes, Increased acne, Skin peeling around fingernails, Skin cracking and peeling at fingertips, Angular Cheilitis, Canker sores, Coated tongue, Runny nose, Increased allergies, Increased Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, Increased asthma, Generalized inflammation in body, Increased Inflammation pain in muscles, Increased Inflammation pain in joints, Achy muscles, Flu like symptoms, Depression, Less sociable, Impaired planning and logic, Brain fog, Low energy, Light headedness, Sluggishness, Forgetfulness, Confusion, Difficulty walking, Behavioral disorders, Dementia, Reduced sense of taste, Increase irritability, Loss of reflexes, Fevers, Old symptoms returning, Heart palpitations, Bleeding easily.

    Group 4
    Itchy bumps generally on scalp or face that develops to acne like lesions in a few days from start.

    Group 3 symptoms, induced paradoxical folate deficiency or insufficiency are corrected quickly with titrated doses of Metafolin, methylb12 and adenosylb12. If glutathione (precursors) are the cause then larger doses of Metafolin, 7.5-15mg,or maybe more are needed. Different tissues are affected at different levels of methylfolate, it comes or goes in stages. Very strong dose proportionate characteristics are present. Serum folate levels may be high or even very high despite Metafolin responsive deficiency/insufficiency symptoms.
    Group 1 symptoms respond readily to potassium. The symptoms and response to potassium may occur at a serum level of 4.3 or less.
  19. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    Wow, that helps a lot Freddd. Where can I find the symptoms I can expect?
  20. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    At this moment I'm doing as Freddd adviced:

    starting with the supplements but the B12, avoid folic acid and see how these things go.

    Then if everythings goes well, I will start with a crumb 1/10 of methyl B12 and adenosylB12.

    Till now I'm trying the supplements and noticed I get instant headaches of the filler magnesium stereate. I went to a marriage 400 km away last weekend and recovering!

    I got the lab results of my eldest son and Freddd confirmed his B12 was too low as well. (When I left the doctors office he said everything was just fine of course.)

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