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Malic Acid: Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia Connection

Discussion in 'Post-Exertional Malaise, Fatigue, and Crashes' started by Wayne, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    I've recently been doing a fair amount of research on the health benefits of malic acid as I prepare to do a liver/gallbladder flush. Part of the protcol is to drink a LOT of apple juice in the days prior to the flush, so that the malic acid in the juice can begin to soften and loosen any liver/gallbladder stones. I don't do well with concentrated sugars like fruit juice, but discovered that I could substitute malic acid capsules instead. So far, my body seems to like it. In my research, I found the following reference to malic acid and CFS:

    Malic Acid: The Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia Connection
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
    L'engle, Hanna, xchocoholic and 2 others like this.
  2. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    Hi Wayne
    How about taking magnesium malate? I think you get quite a lot of malic acid with that.
  3. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi Helen, I take magnesium malate, but only occasionally. Though I seem to do "OK" with it, it does tend to make me feel sort of "heavy". Haven't experienced anything like that with the malic acid capsules (800 mg 3x/day).
    L'engle likes this.
  4. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Is Jim Jones alive and well on PR?

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    When I got RX'd in 96 malic acid was a treatment for FM. Along with guaifenesin.
  5. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    In around 2000-2 I tried malic acid by accident in something I ate. I felt a huge surge of energy the first few times, then nothing.

    Dealing with kidney stones traditionally involved lemon juice iirc. I have no idea if this is relevant to gall bladder stones though.
    L'engle likes this.
  6. Sea

    Sea Senior Member

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    Thanks Wayne, that's interesting. It's a pity they didn't have a group with just Malic Acid or just Magnesium as well so that it was clearer which one was helping.
    Wayne likes this.
  7. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Ashland, Oregon
    YouTube has become one of my first places to search for various things these days, and it's sort of become my "somewhat authoritative" source for information. o_O:rolleyes: That said, a number of videos tout lemon juice and apple cider vinegar as remedies for both kidney stones and gallstones. They're not the same because of the bile concentrated in gallstones, but they do have similar characteristics that allow them to be broken down by various acids, including malic acid.

    If anybody ever gets a gallbladder attack, quick relief can apparently be gotten by soaking a cloth in apple cider vinegar, place it over the gb, and put a heating pad over the top. Another quick remedy is to take an epsom salts bath, which takes the pressure off the gb by relaxing the bile ducts. Anything to relax the bile ducts will bring relief, such as massage, etc. I've never had a gb attack, but they apparently can be VERY painful. From what I can gather, gb attacks caused by gallstones can be almost entirely avoided by regularly ingesting stone dissolving foods such as lemon juice, apple cider vinegar, radishes, apples, dandelion tea, lecithin, etc.. Malic acid is an expeditious way to get a lot of protection with very little effort. --- I've heard that 90% of kidney stones are a result of not drinking enough water.

    BTW, from all the testimonials I've read about people experiencing gb attacks from gallstones, virtually every one of them was advised to have their gall bladder removed, which is the most common surgery annually in the US (half million). $30K-$40K for an operation is the preferable option for gall bladder removal surgeons, as opposed to recommending a liver/gb flush. BTW, medications (14%) and allergies to foods can also restrict bile ducts and cause a gb attack, even when gallstones are not present. Also, for anybody with gallstones (virtually everybody), they generally have way more "liver stones", something we rarely hear about. And they're very, very toxic.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  8. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Sometimes gall bladders are too diseased to save too. Mine only had sludge in it according to the pathology report and possibly could've been saved if I'd known I was gluten intolerant / celiac. Apparently there's a connection between gall bladder disease and celiac.

    imho, gall bladder attacks are equivalent to kidney stone or childbirth pain. I used to take Donnatal elixer for these. : )

    I drink plenty of water and know that I get kidney stones from high oxalate foods. I started getting these in 2007-8 and have experimented enough to know where mine come from. Nuts or seeds especially will trigger stones. I'm not sure how true this is for everyone but the low oxalate diet is standard protocol for stoners.

    I was wondering if you felt better on malic acid ? PEM is one of my most disabling symptoms. I can sometimes fight it physically by using caffeine, sugar and now Vitamin water xxx but mentally I'm in slow motion.
    Wayne likes this.
  9. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi xchocoholic,

    I don't notice a lot from malic acid, but just enough to know that my body likes it and wants to continue taking it. I used to use caffeine as well, but got enough messages from my body that it didn't like that. It was hard to give up because of the temporary boost it gave me. --- Quite honestly, the best pick me up and the therapy that's given me the most cognitive improvement seems to be MMS (chlorine dioxide). I know it's controversial for some people, so I often hesitate to mention it. Only takes a little bit (as little as 1/6 of a drop) to make a big difference for me. I was very sluggish this morning, took my 1/4 drop, and felt much better in only a few minutes.

    My best guess is it gives me quick energy because it improves mitochondrial function. I think in this regards it's similar to another chlorine compound DCA (dichloroacetate), which has been used to treat mitochondrial and metabolic disorders for several decades. Most recently it's being researched as a promising cancer treatment therapy at the University of Calgary.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
    xchocoholic likes this.
  10. Samuela

    Samuela

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    I'm struggling with the search-engine. If this is not the best place for my question, please let me know.

    I'm taking Malic Acid a few weeks now, only 250mg every second day, like my Kinesiologist told me (before that I tried 1 capsule per day - didn't turn out so well). I take it for Aluminium and Ammoniac detox mainly. Pushing the Kreb's Cycle is also welcomed. I couldn't find much about in german forums, thus I'm pretty alone with my experience and don't know what to make of it.

    What my body does with it, is connected by my intuition with what I read about the effects of Guaifenesin. Therefore I'm asking myself, if it's effect to the cells is somehow similar? I don't really feel pain from it. Generally I hadn't reached a state of CFS with notable pain, just nasty gouts here and there sometimes. What I have is strong stiffness that makes me walk like an old lady and a sour feeling after too much activity (like a truck ran over me).

    Well, when I take Malic Acid, I get this feeling in my muscles, that I can't explain properly. It's like some kind of tension. I got this feeling pretty badly when I tried intracellular deacidification last summer, it drove me nuts! It makes me want to move this body parts, or stretch it, rub it, massage it. It's just like something's going on there. Yesterday it was mainly in my arms during the night and in the morning they felt very week, like muscles didn't want to function at all. The left arm also began to prickle for two hours like the blood flow was somehow compromised. I paused Malic Acid since then and for now I feel okay.

    I really would appreciate to know: Is this good or bad? Does it mean all the garbage in the cells is getting moved out, like Guaifensin does it? Should I go on and bear the feeling (which is much easier knowing it's a good sign). Or should I stop it because it means something bad?

    If someone knows a thread where I can find more about it, that would also be very helpfull.
  11. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    Malic acid did help with my back and neck pain, but I realized that it has a terrible effect on my sleep, even taken in the morning. A lot of supplements that would help me affect me this way.
    L'engle likes this.

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