Magnesium - what's best kind to take

[arewenearlythereyet]

That's really interesting, I've never seen a study showing oxide outperforming any other form, thanks for posting that. It doesn't really seem like a fair comparison, though, because they were using almost twice the amount of elemental magnesium in the oxide form compared to the citrate form.

Even still, with how low the absorption rate of oxide has been shown elsewhere, that probably wouldn't be enough to completely count for the higher levels found in the oxide group, but it still seems a bit fishy to me. I don't have a science background, so maybe this a valid approach in comparing two different forms of something. I would expect that for a fair comparison they would use equivalent amounts of elemental magnesium with both groups.

From your link:

In a randomized, prospective, double-blind, crossover study, 41 (20 women) healthy volunteers [mean age 53±8 (range 31-75) years] received either magnesium oxide monohydrate tablets (520 mg/day of elemental magnesium) or magnesium citrate tablets (295.8 mg/day of elemental magnesium) for one month (phase 1), followed by a four-week wash-out period, and then crossover treatment for one month (phase 2).

EDIT: I'm not trying to argue about which form of magnesium is best. If you have a personal reason for using Mg oxide, say you've tested it in isolation and it works well for you, or it's the only form available to you, etc...then by all means keep using it. Having myself wasted tons of money on supplements, I'm just trying to point out that since many sources and studies agree oxide is an inferior poorly absorbed form, it might not be worth using.

I don't really have an axe to grind about what forms people take since I don't think it matters too much and magnesium oxide seem to work for me alongside the other forms. My scepticism is really whether the differences in absorption are exaggerated to make more money for those promoting the supplements.

This is based on the basic chemistry. Any oral supplement will be exposed to HCl when it hits the stomach. Most magnesium forms don't have solubility issues. So for magnesium oxide it is almost certainly changed to magnesium ions and magnesium chloride quite quickly in the stomach where it can then be absorbed in the small intestine and later in the large intestine. The absorption of magnesium ions is quite a complex thing for a number of reasons.

I thought this is an interesting link:


https://academic.oup.com/ckj/article/5/Suppl_1/i3/447534/Magnesium-basics

This shows how complex magnesium absorption is and how the form swallowed is not really what makes it complicated. I suspect that the most important thing for good magnesium absorption is to split the doseage over the day to maintain a slow and steady gradient and to address low stomach acidity issues to get the most from your food. I think this has a far higher impact than any small difference in absorption by different forms.

It's also worth noting that you can continue to absorb magnesium in the colon and reabsorb magnesium in the kidneys before you excrete any excess. I also suspect that people's varying reactions to different forms are less to do with absorption and more to do with other things. The amount of elemental magnesium each of us needs appears to be a very variable and personal thing and probably is linked to a whole load of other variables.

All I can report is that anecdotally I don't have any issues at all with magnesium oxide.

As I said this is my opinion and I reserve the right to change it at any time as more information becomes available

 

[langdale]

Thankyou kindly for all the replies. I tried my magnesium citrate yesterday for the first time - about a third of a level teaspoon and it caused a strong burning feeling in my stomach that lasted all through the night.

 

[PatJ]

I tried my magnesium citrate yesterday for the first time - about a third of a level teaspoon and it caused a strong burning feeling in my stomach that lasted all through the night.

If you tried it by itself, then next time try taking it with food. Magnesium alone can cause stomach upset.

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

The late Dr. Herbert Mansmann who was a diabetic with congenital magnesium deficiency and
severe peripheral neuropathy shares that he was able to reverse with a year of using oral magnesium preparations at very high doses.

He was the director of the Magnesium Research Laboratory at Jefferson Medical College, Thomas Jefferson University. These are some of his articles:
http://barttersite.org/category/articles-by-dr-mansmann/

He recommended taking a variety of magnesium formulations:
http://web.archive.org/web/20071012...rchlab.com:80/Dosing-with-Mg-Suppl-6-3-04.htm
(I rearranged some of the text to make it easier to follow and understand)

We usually recommend only the four numbered (1-4) salts below that are printed in bold.

Start with this first salt (Magnesium Oxide - Blaine MagOx 400), once on 3-4 tablets of Blaine MagOx 400 mg, every 4-6 hours, per day or develops diarrhea, one should then add other salts beginning with Mag-Tab SR and then Maginex.

4B. MAGNESIUM OXIDE is an intermediate acting salt. We have assayed Blaine MagOx 400, (contains 240 mg of elemental Mg per tablet) and content is as stated. It is also free of lead, mercury, cadmium, arsenic and aluminum; and it is free of chemical solvent residue, herbicide, pesticide, and fungicide residue. This product is the most widely used and available Mg product recommended by USA physicians, often even by prescription, although it is OTC. NOTE: this product is covered by Medicaid programs in most USA states.

General Nutrition Center (GNC) Mg oxide products were found by our assay to be accurate as stated on their labels. Other cheaper less know and less studied brands of Mg oxide also are available.

3B. Mag Tab SR is a delayed acting salt. (This Mg salt is made by Niche Pharmaceutical Inc., 800-677-0355.
Mag Tab SR is 84 mg of Mg from Mg L-lactate (MgL) in caplets containing a sustained release wax matrix formulation of this dehydrated compound. This formulation has the theoretical advantage that Mg is absorbed in small increments, 7 mg/hour for 12 hours as the matrix moves through out the bowel. It has been shown that lactate is excreted in the urine after taking MgL, which means that it is mostly absorbed intact leaving little or no Mg in the bowel to bind with 300 times it's weight of water, thus less likely resulting in loose stools.

2B. MAGINEX is an intermediate release enteric-coated Mg salt from Geist Pharmaceuticals 1-888-644-3478.
Maginex is a 61 mg of Mg from Mg-L-Aspartate HCl in an enteric-coated tablet, to bypass the stomach. Its Mg levels peak in 3-4 hours, judged by urinary excretion and measurable, statistically significant, serum levels (10% increases) in 4 hours. Total absorption is 50% more than Mg from Mg Oxide, reported in the medical literature. (Muhlbauer B, Eur J Clin Pharmcol, 1991;437-438). It is important to use the HCl salt, since the neutral acid protects the ability to absorb iron.

The following Mg salt is an excellent RESCUE product, because five to ten tablets often relieves sudden unexpected acute symptoms (like muscle pain/cramps, PMS and burning feet) and can be repeated as soon as one-half hour later 2-4 times without resulting in diarrhea.

1B. MAGONATE is a rapid acting salt. (A Mg Gluconate (MgG) salt, (there are 2 molecules of G in this salt, to one atom of Mg) is made by Fleming and Company Pharmaceutical; our research laboratory assay has found the content to be accurately stated). MgG contains only 5.39% Mg.

MgG is well tolerated, which is very important when taking any Mg product for the first time. Your druggist will usually have to order it. It takes only one day and does not require a prescription. Order 3 bottles of 100 tablets, which is enough for 2-4 weeks, a minimum trial.

Each 500 mg tablet contains 27 mg of Mg*, and 5 tablets equal 135 mg of Mg. This means that 5.8% of the MgG salt is elemental Mg, which is the active component of all of the Mg salts. It is very rapidly absorbed, and the peak effect occurs in less than an hour when taken on an empty stomach, and within an hour from the stomach even when needed after food This Mg salt enters the blood and then the cells through the glucose pathways in the stomach. The salt then dissociates in the cells to free gluconate and functional free ionized Mg. (FDA PB-288 p675 and p537). While other Mg salts, which take 2-4 hours to get their peak effect, MgG’s down side is that it is such a small amount of Mg that one needs at least 5 pills or as much as 10 tablets (270 mg of Mg) every half hour for 2-3 hours. It is wonderful for migraine, as soon as one feels the aura. It usually needs to be used with Mg oxide (MgO), if high doses of Mg are needed.

It has been shown that IV MgSO4 relieves Migraine (Mauskop, Headache. 1996:36;154-160) and Magonate by mouth does the same thing. Many need 10 tablets every half hour for 3-4 times to prevent a migraine attack after the aura or actual headache occurs. Some of the daily dose of this salt is best taken at bedtime, because it results in a rapid sound sleep due to muscular relaxation. Also, I have used it this way for acute onset of Atrial Fibrillation.

More Than One Salt at a Time In certain situations all three types of these four marked Mg salts: an immediate, an intermediated, and the delayed acting Mg salts, may be necessary to reach one's maximum tolerated dose without peaks and valleys, and that is without symptoms during the low periods, (valleys). They should be taken together.

I have the condition erythromelalgia which Dr. Mansmann also had and he treated with high doses of magnesium. I take a magnesium complex (from magnesium oxide, magnesium citrate, magnesium aspartate) 400mg twice a day and MagTab Sr twice a day, which he discusses in the article. If I stop taking MagTab Sr my calf cramps come back.

Here is more of Dr. Mansmann's work that was posted online:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080204160607/http://www.magnesiumresearchlab.com:80

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

More from Dr. Herbert Mansmann:
http://web.archive.org/web/20071012...rchlab.com:80/Dosing-with-Mg-Suppl-6-3-04.htm

MAGNESIUM DOSING

General Principles

1. All adults, even with Bartter’s, Gitelman’s and Distal Renal Tubule Acidosis, should be drinking at least eight 8-ounce glasses of fluid, mostly water, per day.

2. All Mg salts are better tolerated with at least a 100-calorie snack.

3. For its most rapid action, Magonate is best taken on an empty stomach, one hour before or two hours after food intake. Yet it works with food.

4. Because of Magonate’s rapid onset of effect it can be taken with another Mg salt for sudden unexpected acute symptoms, like migraine aura, migraine, muscle cramps, PMS and burning pain. Count the extra Mg as part of the daily total.

5. The total daily dose should always be taken in equally divided doses, 2-6 times a day (12-4 hours apart) and at equally divided times..

6. Always start with the smallest available amount, ½ a tablet, as far apart as possible, initially every 12 hours.

7. Always error by taking more at night, ½ at 10 AM and ½ at 10 PM, then ½ +1, 1+1, 1+1 ½, 2+2, 2+2 ½ etc.

8. Increase dose slowly every 1-2 days, when 2+2, go to 2+1+2 every 8 hours, etc.

9. Learn the amount of elemental Mg in each salt, so that once on 4 pills of Mag-Tab SR, or 10 of Magonate you might try substituting 1-250 mg (or 240 mg) tablet of Mg Oxide. It saves your doctor’s time if you know you elemental Mg amount taken per day.

10. The idea is to slowly increase the dose up to the point of producing soft semi-formed bowel movements without diarrhea-your MTD.

11. When changing Mg salts or to a different brand it is best to gradually make substitutions by alternating sources.

12. A word of caution: the clinical effect all Mg salts is decreased by the simultaneous taking of many drugs. Neurontin is an example, 24% (in the PDR) is not absorbed when taken with Mg, moreover those controlled with a given Neurontin dose find they need more, because of this Mg binding in the blood. This is managed by increasing both the Mg and the Neurontin to remain controlled and symptom free be it due to MgD or due to Neurontin.

 

[Critterina]

I'm not sure if you know, but Magnesium Oxide has a 4% absorption rate. It's pretty much only good for making expensive urine. Since you make Mg oil, you might want to just stick with that and not waste time and money on the oxide.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11794633/

It might make expensive urine, but that's not the point. It is not absorbed, so it travels through the gut. It is used as a laxative.

 

[pamojja]

It might make expensive urine, but that's not the point. It is not absorbed, so it travels through the gut. It is used as a laxative.

Well, again.

I do have severe Mg deficiency with painful muscle-cramps (confirmed with whole-blood Mg lab test). And Magnesiumoxide does help, just as all other Mg compounds. The point is - if your gut tolerates it - it is not expensive at all, but the most cost-effective.

I've severe Mg deficiency with very painful muscle-cramps, and it took my some time to find out that only the elemental Mg content of a Mg compound counts to get rid of the cramps. And that I can save a lot of money that way. More detail here:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/types-of-magnesium.51094/#post-843270

Internet-myths never die.

 

[Gondwanaland]

It might make expensive urine, but that's not the point. It is not absorbed, so it travels through the gut. It is used as a laxative.

It (unfortunately) never had a laxative effect for me up to 600mg, plus I got all the magnesium benefits when taking it. At 800mg it had an excessive laxative effect.

 

[Critterina]

It (unfortunately) never had a laxative effect for me up to 600mg, plus I got all the magnesium benefits when taking it. At 800mg it had an excessive laxative effect.

I know someone who had the same - used the oxide and got the benefit of the element out of it. I don't know what chemistry you have to have to break down MgO, but many of us don't do that efficiently.

Each of us is also different when it comes to laxative effect. I've never experienced a laxative effect from Mg glycinate, but I keep a bottle of MgO on hand for the laxative effect. Also, I found that 50 mg of fiber was just a "normal" amount for things to work well, but EDS people sometimes have very slow transit times.

 

[pamojja]

I don't know what chemistry you have to have to break down MgO, but many of us don't do that efficiently.

Internet-myths never die.

http://www.pharmazeutische-zeitung.de/index.php?id=29065

Translation: http://www.longecity.org/forum/topi...emental-of-magnesium-types/page-3#entry545213
http://www.longecity.org/forum/topi...emental-of-magnesium-types/page-3#entry545213

 

[Critterina]

Internet-myths never die.

http://www.pharmazeutische-zeitung.de/index.php?id=29065

Translation: http://www.longecity.org/forum/topi...emental-of-magnesium-types/page-3#entry545213

@pamojja ,
I read your article, complete with GoogleTranslate translation. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Osmotic laxatives (like oxides and carbonates of magnesium) increase water in the bowels, loosening stools. Not much internet myth about that. If the magnesium leaves the bowel when it does that, it's a neat trick.

 

[pamojja]

@pamojja ,
I read your article, complete with GoogleTranslate translation. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Osmotic laxatives (like oxides and carbonates of magnesium) increase water in the bowels, loosening stools. Not much internet myth about that. If the magnesium leaves the bowel when it does that, it's a neat trick.

Most often this:

I'm not sure if you know, but Magnesium Oxide has a 4% absorption rate. It's pretty much only good for making expensive urine.

Or this:

I don't know what chemistry you have to have to break down MgO, but many of us don't do that efficiently.

I need at least 2 gram of elemental Mg per day to avoid muscle-cramps. At that dose every Mg compound - I tried them all - to a certain degree softens the stool. It just happens that in that range Mg oxide doesn't do it more than any other Mg compound for me, and isn't a waste of money at all. It's even the most cost effective.

As long as this false 4% absorption rate is repeated at nausea, nobody will even try this excellent compound against deficiency. It took years for me till I finally found that post and stopped wasting that much money on all the other expensive compounds. Of course every one has a different threshold with the laxative effect and different Mg compounds, like Gondwanaland at 800mg with Mg-oxide. But if, as most do, one believes the false 4% absorption rate, one doesn't even bothers to try, and then indeed needlessly might waste a lot of money.

 

[Critterina]

@pamojja
Please explain the mechanism for Mg++ outside the gut to soften stools. You quote that as internet myth, that it leaves the bowels when it does that. I'm wondering how. Thank you.

 

[pamojja]

Please explain the mechanism for Mg++ outside the gut to soften stools. You quote that as internet myth, that it leaves the bowels when it does that. I'm wondering how. Thank you.

I quoted the believe of Basilico and you by stating it a 'well known fact', that Mg-oxide would be the Mg compound least absorbed. That isn't the experience for me and some others who actually have tried it (which doesn't imply there wouldn't be an individual threshold for each individual for softening stools). I also posted the link to an article which summarized all availability studies with different Magnesium compounds, and beside gives a plausible reason why Mg oxide is equally absorbed as other Mg compounds.

That plausible reason wasn't the internet myth which in particular I wasn't quoting after your request. It was your and Basilico's claim that Mg-oxide isn't absorbing. Counter my and others experience.

 

[Critterina]

I quoted the believe of Basilico and you by stating it a 'well known fact', that Mg-oxide would be the Mg compound least absorbed. That isn't the experience for me and some others who actually have tried it (which doesn't imply there wouldn't be an individual threshold for each individual for softening stools). I also posted the link to an article which summarized all availability studies with different Magnesium compounds, and beside gives a plausible reason why Mg oxide is equally absorbed as other Mg compounds.

That plausible reason wasn't the internet myth which in particular I wasn't quoting after your request. It was your and Basilico's claim that Mg-oxide isn't absorbing. Counter my and others experience.

Ok, I guess I continue to have trouble understanding you. Sorry. I may be thinking more about the difference between solubility and absorption, but if you don't distinguish between them, I could see where you're coming from. For a long time I thought soluble fibers were absorbed, too; they dissolve but stay within the gut, so they are not absorbed. Well, time to go take my magnesium. Good night.

 

[pamojja]

Ok, I guess I continue to have trouble understanding you. Sorry. I may be thinking more about the difference between solubility and absorption, but if you don't distinguish between them, I could see where you're coming from.

I have severe Mg deficiency. The question of this thread was 'magnesium - what's the best type to take? I have experience with all forms for many years. And found they all help with symptoms of deficiency (ie. very pain-full muscle cramps), and provided a link to an article which sums up where most Mg absorption studies went wrong. Mg-oxide isn't less efficient, as you still seem to maintain. What is there difficult to understand?

Soluble fiber or where I'm coming from have nothing to do with Mg-compounds efficiently helping Mg-deficiency, but you seem to have an own agenda to divert from the actual question of this thread.


PS: Personally never considered added soluble fiber absorbed, but for the prebiotic effect only.

PPS: Wrote to Carolyn Dean of the Mg miracle book about my finding, because I thought her sincerely caring for Mg deficiency patients. Didn't got an answer, but an hollow sales pitch from her sales-department. There is too much money to be made with expensive Mg compounds and perpetuating this Internet myth, obviously.

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

Ok, I guess I continue to have trouble understanding you. Sorry. I may be thinking more about the difference between solubility and absorption, but if you don't distinguish between them, I could see where you're coming from. For a long time I thought soluble fibers were absorbed, too; they dissolve but stay within the gut, so they are not absorbed. Well, time to go take my magnesium. Good night.

I quoted a couple of postings back on this thread some basic chemistry on absorption.

For me there is no logic to the argument that magnesium oxide absorbs any different to any other form of magnesium once its disassociated into magnesium ions. So the difference in forms has more to do with its solubility and reaction to HCl (since everything will be disassociated in the stomach and small intestine). THe difference between forms is very slight from a solubility point of view.

Effective absorption appears to be more about supply and demand which appears to be different for all of us and managed by our bodies. Its about maintaining a suitable supply gradient to do this....and this will be different for all of us. You might as well use the cheapest form available to do this. The body can retrieve magnesium via the kidneys so again we go back to supply and demand within the body rather than trying to influence it via different forms taken orally since within 20 minutes or so they will all be magnesium ions.

Taking magnesium to loosen stools appears to be a different subject to managing effective therapeutic absorption. I suspect that the loose stool reaction is a myth perpetuated as a sales technique to propagate the idea that the supplement is "doing some good". We all like to see "a result" for our money and its difficult to sell expensive supplements if you have no proof that its "working". That isn't to say that if it works to get things moving its not worth doing...but conflating this with maximizing absorption of magnesium ions appears to be quite gross misinformation. I suspect that if you've taken any magnesium form to diarrhea you have probably overdone it by an extremely long way. For the supplement supplier though they sell a shed load more if they make you take more than you need (i.e. more supply than demand can manage)

 

[Gondwanaland]

There is too much money to be made with expensive Mg compounds

Especially her product

 

[Gondwanaland]

In what form comes magnesium from food? I doubt it is aminoacid or organic chelated.

 

[pamojja]

I suspect that if you've taken any magnesium form to diarrhea you have probably overdone it by an extremely long way.

I wished this to be true. However, I really need at least 2 g of elemental Mg each day (along with equal amounts of Na and K) to avoid painful muscle cramps. At that level every Mg compound softens stuhl. Really no myth about that.

Serum Mg levels in my case never showed deficiency. RBC lab tests aren't available to me. However, in whole blood lab tests (serum and blood cells combined) repeatedly showed severe deficiency (since serum itself is sufficient, suspect even more severe deficiency in RBCs). Still, haven't given up the hope to someday overcome it with persistence ..and spectacular transit times.