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Magnesium question - bad reaction

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by xinamatusx, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. xinamatusx

    xinamatusx

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    I started taking magnesium about a week ago as recommended by my doctor. We did one of those rbc tests and saw that it was very low. I wanted to start off with a low dose of 150 and work my way up. Ever since I started taking it my heart rate has decreased which is great because before it was always around 125.. now it's around 60-70 bpm. I also noticed that the tension I have in my upper shoulders and neck started going away. I know magnesium is supposed to help relax your muscles and heart, however I feel very uncomfortable with how it. The first few times I took it my bp went uncomfortably low to around 80/60. It's now stabilized around 105/60. I also feel like my breathing has become more shallow and sometimes when I'm trying to fall asleep I'll be jolted away because it feels like my breath caught (if that makes sense?). It feels like my heart beat has become a lot weaker? Has anyone else experienced this or am I just crazy haha

    I also take a b12 complex, omega 3, iron, and glutamine if that matters. The reason I'm not taking calcium along with the magnesium is because my calcium was already high.
     
  2. zzz

    zzz Senior Member

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    All the symptoms you describe are symptoms of a magnesium toxicity reaction, which means that you're taking too much magnesium for your situation. You have to be very careful here, because a severe magnesium toxicity reaction involves central nervous system depression, which at its worst can result in death. For example, the breathing problems you report are respiratory depression, which in severe forms can result in an inability to breathe at all.

    The main thing to do is to reduce your magnesium consumption until these symptoms go away. Sometimes, a more gradual increase in magnesium supplementation can then be accomplished without these symptoms.

    It's quite rare to get this level of symptoms from oral magnesium supplementation. It's not completely clear why people such as yourself can't tolerate such relatively low levels of supplementation. However, one possibility is that you may have calcium channel antibodies. These make magnesium supplementation very difficult, as they amplify the negative effects of magnesium in just the way you are experiencing. You might want to consult with your doctor about being tested for these antibodies.

    It's important to follow this up, as being very low in magnesium is problematic for everyone, but especially for people with ME/CFS, and calcium channel antibodies present their own set of problems.
     
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  3. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    I also had very low mg RBC and took tons of magnesium via injections, but I never experienced what you describe.
     
  4. charles shepherd

    charles shepherd Senior Member

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    Background information from the MEA on magnesium status and the use of magnesoum supplements as a possible treatment for ME/CFS

    Research into magnesium status in ME/CFS, as well as the use of magnesium supplements, is summarised and referenced in the Treatment section of the MEA purple book:

    MEA purple book:
    http://www.meassociation.org.uk/201...earch-masterwork-now-available-19-april-2017/

    Based on this evidence, most doctors, including myself, take the view that in our current state of knowledge there is no sound evidence of magnesium deficiency in ME/CFS and the use of magnesium supplements is therefore a very speculative and unproven form of treatment for ME/CFS

    It is also worth noting that magnesium can cause side-effects - especially when used at higher doses, some of which are symptoms of ME/CFS:

    http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-suppl...gredientid=998&activeingredientname=magnesium

    So it is possible that using a magnesium supplement could exacerbate ME/CFS symptoms such as dizziness and gastric symptoms

    Dr Charles Shepherd
    Hon Medical Adviser, MEA
     
  5. Chocolove

    Chocolove Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again

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    That sounds like a severe magnesium deficiency. It may take months to achieve appropriate levels of magnesium in the body.

    @xinamatusx

    There is a lot that we don't know about that might help explain this reaction. For instance:

    What form of magnesium are you taking? Folks may have different reactions to different forms...

    Are you now also consuming high magnesium foods or another source of magnesium such Epsom salt soaks?

    Also double check your bottle to see what the actual magnesium content is and how many pills equals a serving size. Sometimes folks misunderstand the dosage system. Are you taking it all at once or spread out throughout the day/night?

    Are you on any medications? Some can heighten side effects of magnesium. See:
    http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-suppl...gredientid=998&activeingredientname=magnesium

    Do you have any kidney problems, perhaps unknown? See:
    http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-suppl...gredientid=998&activeingredientname=magnesium

    In general, here is a list of things to check if you are having problems taking magnesium, by Dr. Carolyn Dean who has significant familiarity with magnesium research:
    http://drcarolyndean.com/2012/10/when-magnesium-makes-me-worse/
    Here is an excerpt:
    What form of iron are you taking and why? Unbound or free iron? See:
    http://gotmag.org/mag-pie-alert-41-toxicity-of-iron/

    With some research you may be able to help figure this out along with your doctor. Hopefully some of this is pertinent to your situation and may clarify the matter. :tulip:
     
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  6. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

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    I cannot take any supplemental magnesium - not even in a multivitamin. It makes me so lethargic and I end up sleeping all of the time - day and night. I started having problems with thinking and found that I couldn't do the simplest of things. I was having hot flashes all of the time and couldn't tolerate being hot at all.

    I've met several people now who also cannot take magnesium for the same reasons, especially extreme lethargy. As one person said to me, it made her "lose her will to live". And we aren't talking large doses here either. My multi only had 50 mg but it was enough to totally incapacitate me after a couple of weeks.
     
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  7. xinamatusx

    xinamatusx

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    So you can get these toxicity type symptoms even though you're deficient? Thank you for the reply :redface:
     
  8. xinamatusx

    xinamatusx

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    Yes, I understand that lethargy you're describing. It has been completely debilitating even at a low dose and my doctor wanted me to double it.
     
  9. xinamatusx

    xinamatusx

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    I've been taking powdered magnesium glycinate without any other sources of magnesium.
    No medications or kidney problems. I'm taking iron because my doctor found slight anemia and low ferritin. I've had anemia in the past and took high doses of iron with no side effects. Thank you for the links!
     
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  10. xinamatusx

    xinamatusx

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    I just got a call from my doctor that my potassium is now low. So should I be forcing myself to take the magnesium as low magnesium can cause low potassium? I don't know how it works so if someone has any advice I'd appreciate it.
     
  11. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

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    Do you eat a healthy diet? I'd start by making sure that you are eating foods that are high in magnesium and potassium instead of relying on supplements. Low potassium can cause cardiac symptoms so it could be that this is what is contributing to your symptoms. Personally, I'd try stopping the magnesium supplement for a few weeks and see how you feel.
     
  12. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I get very different reactions depending on what the magnesium is bound to. Glycine for instance is an inhibitory neurotransmitter in the central nervous system.
     
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  13. wastwater

    wastwater Senior Member

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    It gives me insomnia and make me a bit wired
     
  14. zzz

    zzz Senior Member

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    Magnesium deficiency is widespread in the general population in the US, and there is no reason to believe that it is substantially different in the UK. For example, according to the US Department of Agriculture, 57% of all people in the US have a magnesium deficiency. This is consistent with a number of other estimates that I have seen.

    The symptoms of magnesium deficiency can be found listed in many reputable sources. Wikipedia has a nice brief summary:
    The reference is to Viering, Daan H. H. M.; Baaij, Jeroen H. F. de; Walsh, Stephen B.; Kleta, Robert; Bockenhauer, Detlef (2016-05-27). "Genetic causes of hypomagnesemia, a clinical overview". Pediatric Nephrology: 1–13. ISSN 0931-041X. doi:10.1007/s00467-016-3416-3, which is from where this list is taken.

    As to the position of other doctors with regard to magnesium deficiency in ME/CFS, I have not seen any definitive survey on this subject. But I do know that Dr. Sarah Myhill, one of the few practicing ME/CFS specialists in the UK, is a strong proponent of magnesium supplementation, and has found magnesium deficiencies in the vast majority of her patients using standard tests. She sees magnesium supplementation as a key treatment for ME/CFS, and has written extensively about it on her Web site.

    In the US, Dr. Paul Cheney is one of the most vocal proponents of magnesium supplementation. He has stated that it is one of the two most effective treatments he has found for ME/CFS.

    I personally can also testify to the efficacy of magnesium supplementation. Several years ago, I was suffering from what symptomatically appeared to be a severe magnesium deficiency; I was bed bound and at my lowest state that I've been in this illness. I began treating myself with magnesium nebulization (which I have written about extensively in this forum), and I immediately began to improve; over a period of several months, I experienced substantial improvement in my condition. Without magnesium supplementation, I would not be in a position to write this post.
    This is true; proper dosing is essential, as with any drug. Dosing recommendations for magnesium supplementation are well publicized, and most people have no problems with magnesium supplementation when these are followed.

    Please note that the article that you quoted contains the following:
    Problems with nerves, muscles, and proper GI function are almost universal among people with ME/CFS. For this reason, and those reasons mentioned above, I cannot see why a magnesium deficiency should not be treated, as long as the treatment is done properly and does not produce undesirable side effects.
    Yes, this is certainly possible, but once again, such side effects are rare when supplementation is done properly and tailored to the person's needs. If these side effects occur, they can be made to disappear essentially immediately simply by reducing or stopping the magnesium supplementation.
    Yes; people with certain problems cannot process magnesium supplements properly. In my previous post, I mentioned calcium channel antibodies as one cause for this. A more common cause is renal failure. Normally, the kidneys excrete excess magnesium rather quickly, so that the proper blood level of magnesium is maintained. If the kidneys aren't functioning properly, a standard supplementation of magnesium may cause blood levels to rise well beyond what they would in healthy people, and this may cause the symptoms of magnesium toxicity, even though there is an overall magnesium deficiency. For this reason, you may want to ask your doctor to test your kidney function.
    You should definitely not force yourself to take the magnesium, as this can be dangerous with your symptoms, especially since we don't know what's causing your reactions. Instead, it's very simple to supplement your potassium, and it should be quite safe since your potassium levels are low. In the US, you can get potassium supplements in the form of 99 mg capsules or tablets without a prescription, and you can take up to five of these a day with meals. More than that is not recommended, as it typically causes gastric irritation. However, if you need more potassium than that, prescription forms are available from your doctor that avoid these side effects.
    Although this is true, glycine is also an amino acid that has many beneficial effects in the body.

    Magnesium glycinate is a very popular form of magnesium supplementation because it is considered by many to be the most easily absorbed form of magnesium. The amount of glycine in the supplement is not significant enough to cause side effects in most people (I have never heard of any), and the mechanism by which glycine acts as an inhibitory neurotransmitter pales in comparison with the inhibitory qualities of magnesium itself. These inhibitory qualities are a benefit of magnesium in proper doses (helping to moderate some symptoms of dysautonomia, for example). However, in doses that are too high, they can cause central nervous system depression and the symptoms that have been described.
    These are symptoms of hypokalemia, or low potassium. When magnesium levels are increased, the body's demand for potassium increases. These symptoms typically can be relieved by use of an OTC potassium supplement, as I described above. It's generally good to start with a low level of potassium and simply go up to the amount needed to relieve hypokalemia symptoms, while observing the limits that I mentioned above.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
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  15. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I wish I got its benefits which I badly need. Although the glycine actually helps me with sleep, the reason why I can't take it is because it raises my uric acid and I get painful gout symptoms. Ina MgGly capsule there is a lot of glycine and very little Mg...
     
  16. liverock

    liverock Senior Member

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    I think you need to get the high calcium and parathyroid hormone levels checked by a specialist in hyperparathyroidism. There are some GP's who have never seen this disease before in their entire career.

    The parathyroid glands consist of 4 small glands located,two either side of the main thyroid and have only one job, to finely control serum calcium and phosphate levels.
    Even slightly high calcium can be deadly if not addressed over time. If one or more of the parathyroids has a benign growth, it increases thyroid hormone (PTH) which in turn increases serum calcium levels.

    High calcium will lower sodium(Na) and potassium(K) which will lower adrenal function, and cause fatigue. It will also lower iron levels, another of your symptoms.

    These mineral wheels show these calcium interactions.
    http://www.traceelements.com/docs/Calcium Wheels.pdf

    Hyperparathyroidism can also cause heart racing or palpitations as well as mitral valve problems. High Calcium also seems to affect muscles mostly gluteus,deltoids,hamstrings and biceps.

    A lot of doctors mistakenly diagnose hyperparathyroidism as fibromyalgia and attempt to treat it with supplements to lower the increased calcium level or just adopt a "wait and see" attitude, thinking it not a problem unless kidney stones are formed. Meanwhile calcium is building up in the arteries which can cause heart and stroke problems eventually.

    What could have happened when you took the Mg supplement was the calcium level was lowered initially, lifting your muscle and fatigue problems, but the rogue parathyroid could fight back with an even more increased PTH, to reestablish the increased calcium level it had got used to, which would explain the drop in potassium(K) level afterwards.

    This thread includes a survey that showed 62% of doctors failed to refer people diagnosed with fibromyalgia and had high calcium, to a specialist through "wait and see if it comes down" attitudes or just ignorance of the dangers of high calcium levels.

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...omyalgia-really-be-hyperparathyroidism.30808/

    Dr Norman is one of the leading parathyroid surgeons,he and his team do 3,700 operations annually and has a website with a lot of information on parathyroid problems.

    http://www.parathyroid.com/Normal-Blood-Calcium-Levels.htm

    You don't say how long you have had high calcium, but It may be prudent to have your parathyroids checked by a specialist to rule this problem in or out because the longer you wait the more damage it can do.
     
  17. xinamatusx

    xinamatusx

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    Couldn't the low potassium also be caused by my magnesium deficiency?
    By a specialist do you mean an endocrinologist or someone else? Because I did see an endocrinologist and all he did was check me for addisons.
    A naturopath I recently started seeing suggested that my thyroid is creating antibodies due to leaky gut causing an autoimmune response. I don't know how accurate that is but that's more of an answer than I ever got from my normal doctor.

    Also I forgot to mention that sometimes my calcium is high and sometimes it isn't. I've had it checked many times over the past 6 months. It seems to be 50/50
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2017
  18. wastwater

    wastwater Senior Member

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    I do have low potassium,but it's erratic too,low normal and high, last time it was low
     
  19. liverock

    liverock Senior Member

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    @xinamatusx

    This study shows that Hyperparathyroidism can be responsible for low RBC magnesium and surgery corrects the problem.

    What are your Calcium and PTH levels results over the past 2 years since you have had your health problem?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2248692
    PMID:224869
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  20. Chocolove

    Chocolove Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again

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    Consumption doesn't equal absorption.

    Low iron causes extreme fatigue and causes feelings like you have trouble breathing. Low iron often results in a faster pulse as the body tries to get more oxygen. Your poor blood platelets have so little oxygen which is transported by iron that they can't transport it to your brain or anywhere else that needs it. I suspect this is why the magnesium is affecting you so badly.

    It may take months to replete these mineral deficiencies. The most absorbable form of iron is heme iron which comes from animals, often beef liver is very helpful and it provides many other nutrients much needed. You can find dessicated beef liver sold in capsules, sourced from grass fed cattle in Argentina, and many other products. Iron is much better absorbed in the presence of vitamin C.

    I am currently interested in "Proferrin" which is a heme iron product.
    https://smile.amazon.com/Proferrin-...rds=proferrin iron supplement#customerReviews

    Check out info from the Iron Disorders Institute website which is provided at several reading levels.
    http://www.irondisorders.org/iron-library1

    Can your physician recommend a good nutritionist or Registered Dietitian, or even an ND experienced in repleting nutritional deficiencies? Most MDs have no training in nutrition.
     

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